General Healer Discussion [The Echo Chamber]

[flowerfairy]

Btw, I know you were a little interested in my SCH ideas a while back. Do you like the concept I came up with?

Cool stuff. I really like the whole idea of SCH switching into stances like Libra, Emergency Tactics, and Eos/Selene. Quiet Dusk is insane but honestly a cool replacement for Fey Wind, I wonder how often it would be used if you're raiding with a BLM.
Do the spells that don't say anything about MP have zero cost to them, like Broil and Adlo? I think the GCD damage spells should be around 400 or a number that makes MP regen a slight positive, while GCD heal spells are around 800. I feel like the abilities chosen to cost MP are a bit arbitrary, like Seraphic Veil is only available if you summoned Seraph on a 180s CD, and it costs MP even though it has a 10s recast. I get the MP cost on Elysium though, that's insane too.
I think Light/Dark Shift should be it's own button, the Summon buttons be their own 2.5s GCD buttons, and tie Blessing/Spark to their respective Summon buttons. I feel it's the kind of situation where button efficiency should be sacrificed for freedom of choice. Also, Shift has a really heavy cooldown. It might be personal preference but I'd like the idea of being able to frequently switch Eos/Selene, so I'd reduce it to 90s CD.

That's all I have to say, everything's really well thought out. It's got busywork that SE probably would never touch with a 10 feet pole but really cool design for SCH.

[ty_taurus]

Cool stuff. I really like the whole idea of SCH switching into stances like Libra, Emergency Tactics, and Eos/Selene. Quiet Dusk is insane but honestly a cool replacement for Fey Wind, I wonder how often it would be used if you're raiding with a BLM.
Do the spells that don't say anything about MP have zero cost to them, like Broil and Adlo? I think the GCD damage spells should be around 400 or a number that makes MP regen a slight positive, while GCD heal spells are around 800. I feel like the abilities chosen to cost MP are a bit arbitrary, like Seraphic Veil is only available if you summoned Seraph on a 180s CD, and it costs MP even though it has a 10s recast. I get the MP cost on Elysium though, that's insane too.
I think Light/Dark Shift should be it's own button, the Summon buttons be their own 2.5s GCD buttons, and tie Blessing/Spark to their respective Summon buttons. I feel it's the kind of situation where button efficiency should be sacrificed for freedom of choice. Also, Shift has a really heavy cooldown. It might be personal preference but I'd like the idea of being able to frequently switch Eos/Selene, so I'd reduce it to 90s CD.

That's all I have to say, everything's really well thought out. It's got busywork that SE probably would never touch with a 10 feet pole but really cool design for SCH.

The idea involves a rework to how MP functions across all healers. I don't really think it makes sense to have your standard tools chip away at MP and be designed to automatically resolve itself with Lucid Dreaming, especially when physical jobs have absolutely no cost other than range for melee. So yes the idea is if an MP cost isn't listed, it costs none.

The idea here instead is MP is a more prominent resource for specific actions, and managing MP so you can continue using those actions becomes a more active component of decision making. It's experimental in these builds and without being able to test it in a game build, there's no real way to know how well it works as I've laid it out, but I think the concept is a much better one than how MP works currently.

As for the busywork aspect, it's also something that could be worked toward. Like if I were a designer for their team, I'd pitch this rough concept as the goal to more toward and then, hoping that got approved, move onto steps A and B to get this as we want it by 8.0, for example. Ultimately it's more about capturing a concept rather than saying "this is how it should be exactly as is written," right? I appreciate the critiques though, there are some good points. I was thinking on MP for Seraph actions is because there's no Fey Gauge cost. You can use them for theoretically the entire 22 seconds if you wanted to with no other restriction, and they generate Aetherflow so they're DPS positive to use so long as you aren't overcapping.

I see what you're saying on the Light/Dark Shift. I think the choice of which faerie you go with should hold more weight which makes me adverse to dropping it to 90 seconds, but if you could manually summon the other faerie on the GCD by just letting Summon Eos and and Summon Selene exist while the other is out, you do have the option to take a small DPS hit to change if you feel you need to swap to the other since I kept the summon on the GCD. And then Light/Dark Shift would be a separate button.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

Oh,snip."

What the spell would do is provide a variety of randomized favorite catchphrases (fully voice acted!), like one of those Chatty Cathy dolls with the pull string on the back. A non-exhaustive list includes:

• I chose a HEALer to HEAL
• I'm on this job because I know what REAL healing is. All the others are just fake DPS mains besmirching the name of REAL healing.
• All of you are elitist tryhards obsessed with numbers. I actually play this game to have fun. You don't know what REAL fun is.
• I'm focused on HEALing. My cohealer is a parse-obsessed DPS wolf in healer's clothing. I'm doing all of the REAL work.
• Redditors and statistics agree that simpler classes are more popular. That means I'm more enlightened than the rest of you.
• All of you think runs are perfect! You don't know what a REAL HEALER does when someone gets a vulnerability stack. I'm the one saving our runs here. Me.
• If you don't hear anything in the next few seconds you should know it's because I'm HEALing. You know, like a HEALER should. Pay attention to how a REAL healer plays.
• I'M playing the most powerful and useful healer. My cohealer is holding you back with their fake non-healing tryhard elitist DPS main nonsense. I'm the one REALLY contributing here.

snip

I think it would make a lot of people happy. It'd be designated as the most powerful healer. It'd provide a job that doesn't do anything but heal. We horrible numbers-obsessed elitist optimizers would have to concede that it provides the strongest benefit and we only refuse to play it due to preference. Plus it allows anyone who plays it to constantly tell everyone around them that they're better, exalted creatures more enlightened than the people who don't like simplistic jobs and it's even tied to a job gauge! I know the randomized catchphrases would draw some flack, maybe a future update could put them on optional separate buttons.

Then we can have the dream: the Five Healer Model. The Pure Healer can be the absolute best one numbers-wise. The rest of us will have to brainstorm ideas for ruining the other four jobs with like, engagement and choices and too many buttons. Horrible, I know. But I'm willing to give it a shot.

Sarcasm aside I think i'ts a good idea minus the voice quotes etc, it would give you guys who just want complicated stuff your own class while leaving those of us who do want simplistic healing etc our own class, that still provides great dps. I think it's actually a good idea no cap, prob damage buff needs a tweak ofc.

[AnotherPerson]

Oh, come to think of it. I have a genie wish, but it's not exactly related to WHM. I'd want to create a brand new healer job. Not sure what I'd name it, maybe Pure Healer. It'd have maybe 2-4 GCD heals to cover single target and AOE. A Medica 2 equivalent for those who like regens. A Succor-like equivalent with a damage reduction for the mitigation aspect. The job gauge is called the Sanctimony meter. See, the job would have no damage buttons. Just a passive (or actively refreshed, I'm not picky) +50% damage buff to all party members. Instead it would have a spell that replaces all single-target and AOE damage abilities from healers with a GCD called "Don't be hyperbolic I'm not just pressing ONE button. There are several in this kit". It would be a unique ability, impossible to bind to the 1 key specifically so that when people accuse this healer of pressing 111111111 they can easily say "Nuh uh, don't be ridiculous. This spell is bound to 2."

I think it would make a lot of people happy. It'd be designated as the most powerful healer. It'd provide a job that doesn't do anything but heal. We horrible numbers-obsessed elitist optimizers would have to concede that it provides the strongest benefit and we only refuse to play it due to preference. Plus it allows anyone who plays it to constantly tell everyone around them that they're better, exalted creatures more enlightened than the people who don't like simplistic jobs and it's even tied to a job gauge! I know the randomized catchphrases would draw some flack, maybe a future update could put them on optional separate buttons.

Then we can have the dream: the Five Healer Model. The Pure Healer can be the absolute best one numbers-wise. The rest of us will have to brainstorm ideas for ruining the other four jobs with like, engagement and choices and too many buttons. Horrible, I know. But I'm willing to give it a shot.

*waits for someone to not realize this is spoken in sarcasm and agree, only for another person to call them out and destroy that dream simply with: "Solo instances that require player DPS in MSQ exist" and "You can't heal enemies to death even if you wanted to before the timer runs out in the MSQ".*

[ForsakenRoe]

*waits for someone to not realize this is spoken in sarcasm and agree, only for another person to call them out and destroy that dream simply with: "Solo instances that require player DPS in MSQ exist" and "You can't heal enemies to death even if you wanted to before the timer runs out in the MSQ".*

Nah, any solo instance which would otherwise force you to press a dirty damage button, SE can rework so that the enemy's will to fight is drained over time until they give up, because they realize that the Pure Healer was right all along. This wouldn't be damage over time though, it'd be more akin to a 'non-lethal boss fight completion' from MGS games, where you run them out of stamina gauge instead of health gauge. Or they get too old and die of old age, maybe that'd be more accurate here

[AFuzzyMu11in]

*waits for someone to not realize this is spoken in sarcasm and agree, only for another person to call them out and destroy that dream simply with: "Solo instances that require player DPS in MSQ exist" and "You can't heal enemies to death even if you wanted to before the timer runs out in the MSQ".*

I know it was sarcastic but I like the idea honestly. My job would be healing only, and dps is worried about by the team, I think a pure healer class that just heals while giving passive dps boosts would be interesting and definitely should be a thing. It's less stressful to worry about rotations, and you can just focus on what matters healing only. Maybe like if the class had no broil but a stronger Chain Strat, strategem and some copies of it with different names, that you had to time with raid cooldowns etc. It's a very interesting idea. Your main focus being healing and never worrying about dps.

[Tint]

I did expert roulette with a premade party the other day. One of them said they could play tank so we agreed. What I only noticed when we were already inside the dungeon was that the tank was only wearing level 80 gear.

However: We still did wall to wall pulls and managed just fine. It was a bit more work, sure, but I still found plenty time for dpsing during these pulls.

Why was that even possible?

[Liam_Harper]

I did Expert Roulette last week without a tank at all. We wall pulled and finished in a fast time with 0 deaths. It's a little sad really.

[ty_taurus]

I know it was sarcastic but I like the idea honestly. My job would be healing only, and dps is worried about by the team, I think a pure healer class that just heals while giving passive dps boosts would be interesting and definitely should be a thing. It's less stressful to worry about rotations, and you can just focus on what matters healing only. Maybe like if the class had no broil but a stronger Chain Strat, strategem and some copies of it with different names, that you had to time with raid cooldowns etc. It's a very interesting idea. Your main focus being healing and never worrying about dps.

You could always play a game where that’s how healers are designed to play and not one where that concept cannot functionally exist because it was designed to have healers spend a majority of their time attacking only to fight that design and the players that enjoy that choice.

I mean, I wouldn’t start playing WoW and harass it’s forums declaring that skill trees are a menace to my personal experience and that WoW should delete them because I don’t like them.

[AFuzzyMu11in]

You could always play a game where that’s how healers are designed to play and not one where that concept cannot functionally exist because it was designed to have healers spend a majority of their time attacking only to fight that design and the players that enjoy that choice.

I mean, I wouldn’t start playing WoW and harass it’s forums declaring that skill trees are a menace to my personal experience and that WoW should delete them because I don’t like them.

Look, I'm just helping provide the outside opinion to the echo chamber you guys have here sometimes. Even the live letter question showed that healers are complaining it's too hard now in the new content, you can't have it both ways, either make it easier so anyone can do it[ even bored vets] or make it harder so only one part of community can do it [ bored vets]...this is a no brainer.

Why would they make the content consistently harder which would ruin healer population versus making it simpler and increasing it? Loosing the minority to help the majority is better. But that aside I do think they need to just make a braindead healer, medium, and savage hard mode easy to screw up healer.... so everyone is happy.

Like league.
Sivir easy.
Trist medium.
Vayne hard.

Just make sure the difference in DPS is minuscule at best so you don't get toxicity from players saying don't play sivir/trist they do less dps in raids.