MNK and DRG: How are they?

[wereotter]

I'd say monk is in a good spot. the only problem i have with monk is that (and SMN has the same problem) the dev team forgot that the lvl cap in endwalker is 90 and not 60

I know you're exaggerating... but summoner doesn't have exactly this same problem since it doesn't get its full kit of skills till level 86, when you get the weave attacks for Titan, Slipstream, and the Ifrit dash. Though monk does have this issue with the core rotation of the job being complete at 60, and the only add on being buffs (riddle of fire and brotherhood) between 61-70

DRG has no button bloat.

Hard disagree. It's the only job I play where just the damage dealing skills I need to track for single target rotations won't fit on a single cross hotbar. The incredibly long basic rotation and so many weave skills make it indeed have a button bloat problem on par with astrologian.

[ZiraZ]

I know you're exaggerating... but summoner doesn't have exactly this same problem since it doesn't get its full kit of skills till level 86, when you get the weave attacks for Titan, Slipstream, and the Ifrit dash. Though monk does have this issue with the core rotation of the job being complete at 60, and the only add on being buffs (riddle of fire and brotherhood) between 61-70



Hard disagree. It's the only job I play where just the damage dealing skills I need to track for single target rotations won't fit on a single cross hotbar. The incredibly long basic rotation and so many weave skills make it indeed have a button bloat problem on par with astrologian.

Good thing theres more than 1 cross hotbar

[LifeupOmega]

DRG is solid right now, and I'm worried that they want to "rework" the job given how dumbed down Summoner is. If people want to play an easier maiming job, Reaper exists. If they want easier jobs in other areas, we have aforementioned Summoner, or Warrior, or Dancer, or whatever healer you like the flavour of.

Still kind of sad they stripped out all of Monk's positionals though, felt like a defining part of the job was that it was focused on that.

[wereotter]

Good thing theres more than 1 cross hotbar

It's the only DPS job I have to do this on, which implies on its own that the job has too many buttons. Flipping through that many hotbars just isn't something that I want to do, since I also set up a hotbar on every job for AOE rotation skills.

[ZiraZ]

It's the only DPS job I have to do this on, which implies on its own that the job has too many buttons. Flipping through that many hotbars just isn't something that I want to do, since I also set up a hotbar on every job for AOE rotation skills.

and not for NIN or MNK?
where do you hide all the mudras and raijus

[wereotter]

and not for NIN or MNK?
where do you hide all the mudras and raijus

Monk's core single target rotation needs 14 hotbar slots, cross hotbar is 16 so you have room for all your skills you will be using on a regular basis plus two more. Situational skills I put on the extended crossbar since I don't need to monitor the cooldown on them. Ninja's core rotation is 17 skills, and I get around this by including Meisui on the extended hotbar since it's always used in conjunction with the two minute burst window you can track the timer on with Mug/Ten-Chi-Jin. Plus you don't need to put both forked and fleeting raiju on your main group of skills since you're pretty much always using fleeting raiju. There's rarely a time you're in the middle of your burst phase and need to disengage then use the gap closing aspect of forked raiju to get back into range, but I just have it sitting on the extended cross hotbar for the never times I've needed to do this.

Dragoon on the other hand has its weave skills you have to monitor, damage increasing cooldowns, and core rotation of skills at 18 moves. I've yet to find a hotbar setup for the job that lets me easily access all the job's moveset and track the cooldowns I need to use all on one cross hotbar. The job doesn't need a huge skill purge, but could use 2 or 3 skills either trimmed out or merged into the same button, or even some of the skills changed from damage dealing to pure movement, like if Spineshatter Dive had it's damage moved onto other skills and was purely a gap closing skill.

[ZiraZ]

Monk's core single target rotation needs 14 hotbar slots, cross hotbar is 16 so you have room for all your skills you will be using on a regular basis plus two more. Situational skills I put on the extended crossbar since I don't need to monitor the cooldown on them. Ninja's core rotation is 17 skills, and I get around this by including Meisui on the extended hotbar since it's always used in conjunction with the two minute burst window you can track the timer on with Mug/Ten-Chi-Jin. Plus you don't need to put both forked and fleeting raiju on your main group of skills since you're pretty much always using fleeting raiju. There's rarely a time you're in the middle of your burst phase and need to disengage then use the gap closing aspect of forked raiju to get back into range, but I just have it sitting on the extended cross hotbar for the never times I've needed to do this.

Dragoon on the other hand has its weave skills you have to monitor, damage increasing cooldowns, and core rotation of skills at 18 moves. I've yet to find a hotbar setup for the job that lets me easily access all the job's moveset and track the cooldowns I need to use all on one cross hotbar. The job doesn't need a huge skill purge, but could use 2 or 3 skills either trimmed out or merged into the same button, or even some of the skills changed from damage dealing to pure movement, like if Spineshatter Dive had it's damage moved onto other skills and was purely a gap closing skill.

So make a separate bar just to track cooldows, can controllers not do that? although you don't really need to, you always know when stuff is coming back just by monitoring a single 30, 60 and 120 second ability, I never look at my SSD, Sight or DFD cooldown, I know I'm getting both SSD and DFD for every 2mins burst which always happens when Litany comes up, and Litany means Sight too and a Life Surge at least. Really the only cooldowns I'm staring at are GsK and HJ.

I don't see how cooldown tracking has anything to do with button bloat, for me button bloat is extra abilities that need to be pressed for no reason, like when Minor Arcana was a separate button, HJ and MD being separate has a very important purpose, all the other jumps have a purpose for a job that has a oGCD heavy playstyle, if anything I think drg currently has the perfect amount of keys for a dps job.
If you made SSD a movement only ability the 2 min timers would feel very boring and not much would be gained, since you already don't really need to track it's cooldown.

[wereotter]

So make a separate bar just to track cooldows, can controllers not do that?

If we can, I've never seen the option. I'm not going to say 100% it doesn't exist as sometimes they add things in or they're there but burried... but I've been playing since 2013 on console and this is an option I've never found. You use the R1 button to cycle through the hotbars you've set, and you can double tap R2 and L2 to get the extended ones. Using cross hotbar, that's really it. There's no separate hotbar that just sits there to tell you when your skills are off cooldown. But even then, you're saying to do this because literally one DPS job needs it. And even then, you still have to fiddle with more hotbars to make the job work for its normal rotation than any other DPS job needs to do. That's the very definition of having too many buttons on the job

If you made SSD a movement only ability the 2 min timers would feel very boring and not much would be gained, since you already don't really need to track it's cooldown.

It's no different in this case than when they deleted shoulder tackle as a damage dealing skill on monk and made it into a skill with no damage explicitly for movement. Monk lost one of it's weavable damage skills, and the change is largely considered a massive positive. Giving melee jobs access to movement skills that don't have to be used for damage is, in my opinion, a good thing.