The health problem of hiding numbers while catering to high-end raiders

[Jeeqbit]

the threat of an improperly balanced encounter always exists and goes up with the more jobs introduced to the game.

They are pretty good at this though. From a pure potency and tooltip standpoint, you can add up the effect of all abilities and find they are almost the same between jobs in the same role. This is still the case. The issue is how that potency is spread out and doesn't fall within damage windows and damage windows weren't taken into account until EW homogenized them.

Without some objective measurements to know when something is realistically achievable, these players can (and in fact have, in the case of FFXI's absolute virtue) hurt themselves chasing an impossible goal.

It's supposed to be achievable. If it's not, then it's a bug and should be addressed by SE like it was recently.

It's absolutely acceptable to want to display necessary numbers under their own terms, but to not do so at all makes forces the player segment they are catering to use external tools which the dev team does not approve of.

Not necessarily. People have worked out stats and done the necessary maths using calculators and websites before logging into the game for years.

Had the very tools they condemn not exist, many parties trying to complete the 6.2 raid tier prior to the hotfix to tank damage could have found themselves chasing an impossible goal, hurting themselves in much the same way as the players that tried to take down Absolute Virtue in FFXI.

Having a stock of water and food, regular meals and resting after 16 hours max should be part of the plan. If the static as a whole is not ordering this of their members, then it's probably not the right static. Not eating and sleeping would impact your performance and then impact you the next day, making the raid performance worse, so there is a good reason for racers to be doing this and as far as I have observed, they do this.

Anyone trying to keep going without drinking, eating or sleeping was probably never going to win the race anyway because it would bite their performance toward the end.

[Lunalepsy]

Final Fantasy XIV is currently fighting with a contradiction of its own design. Extremely fine tuned high-end content requiring perfect execution of rotations and min-maxing of stats exist while those same numbers are hidden from the players. The issue is that the highest end raiders are effectively e-sports players. These are the kind of people who will do things that take a tole on their health to complete content within a single lockout, if not aiming to be world first.

Due to the nature of enrages and damage tuning, the threat of an improperly balanced encounter always exists and goes up with the more jobs introduced to the game. Without some objective measurements to know when something is realistically achievable, these players can (and in fact have, in the case of FFXI's absolute virtue) hurt themselves chasing an impossible goal.

The issue is it must be possible for parties external to SE to check the metrics of a fight for the sake of safety of that particular player segment regardless of how excellent the devs are at balancing the fight. A good first step would be to fill in basic details on the player UI, like what is a player's critical hit chance vs a target of his level under the critical hit tooltip. It's absolutely acceptable to want to display necessary numbers under their own terms, but to not do so at all makes forces the player segment they are catering to use external tools which the dev team does not approve of.

Had the very tools they condemn not exist, many parties trying to complete the 6.2 raid tier prior to the hotfix to tank damage could have found themselves chasing an impossible goal, hurting themselves in much the same way as the players that tried to take down Absolute Virtue in FFXI.

I remember when playing games was a fun thing to do instead of showing off your e-resume.

[Azuri]

I remember when playing games was a fun thing to do instead of showing off your e-resume.

Have you ever considered that some find showing off their e-resume fun?

Nah, preposterous...

[Ralphe2449]

Final Fantasy XIV is currently fighting with a contradiction of its own design. Extremely fine tuned high-end content requiring perfect execution of rotations and min-maxing of stats

Your entire argument is based on a lie.

No encounter in any mmorpg ever requires perfect execution otherwise only a handful people and scripts on the planet would be able to clear said encounter, this is basic game design.

You always have a room for error, even ultimates have some small room for minor errors, imagine the room for error in savage, not only that, add the gear you get over the weeks which further increase that room for error and we have reached a place where we are quite far from "perfect execution of rotations and min-maxing of stats"

The only time it is even possible for an encounter to require literally perfect play would be if there was a balancing error or maybe, just maybe you arent meant to clear week 1 and you need farm some gear to beat said encounter after a few weeks which can be intended in its design, that is a developer decision.

Even world first players often make minor mistakes yet they still clear quite quickly, certain raiders need to stop deluding themselves that clearing a raid means they achieved perfect performance.... Like, the levels of fragile ego are scary

[Atelier-Bagur]

Have you ever considered that some find showing off their e-resume fun?

Nah, preposterous...

Sad way to have fun but oh well. Its not like there's a huge pot of gold waiting for you at the end of that rainbow.

But I really shouldnt be judging what people find fun anyway.

[Deveryn]

Having a stock of water and food, regular meals and resting after 16 hours max should be part of the plan. If the static as a whole is not ordering this of their members, then it's probably not the right static. Not eating and sleeping would impact your performance and then impact you the next day, making the raid performance worse, so there is a good reason for racers to be doing this and as far as I have observed, they do this.

Anyone trying to keep going without drinking, eating or sleeping was probably never going to win the race anyway because it would bite their performance toward the end.

People overlook this a lot. If you're going beyond one lockout on a fight and not taking a decent break, you're gonna get sloppy. It doesn't just happen in gaming. I see people push themselves way too often and sometimes I get to hear them and I can tell when they start to get tired. People clown themselves too often thinking they can go one more round.

[kaynide]

Speaking from ignorance on savage level, but my impression was that endgame fine tuning was really only an issue for week 1 clears. Aren’t fights progressively easier as time goes by and raiders get better gear from weekly stuff?

…so doesn’t that make this whole thing moot? If a fight is so hard it can’t be cleared week 1…doesn’t it just get cleared week 2? Or 3?

Moreover, comparing the difficulty of 14s fights to other MMOs is rather disingenuous- 14 largely boils down to memorization and pre-planning and worst case, just waiting to get better gear that is guaranteed to come along. Most MMOs once you hit the ceiling, that’s it.


I think a big thing players need to remember: this game is intended for casual play. Originally they only added savage/ex/etc because they were surprised people wanted more to do once they finished 2.0. YoshiP had said he expected people would play, have fun, then go play other games during content drought..but people wanted more krunk… so they added relics with massive grinds and hard fights like binding coil. They want to cater to everyone, but hard-content players are not the target audience.


Remember they even made a tv drama entirely around a son carrying his dad through binding coil. That’s the target.

[Maltothoris]

Binding Coil was released when the game first dropped on patch 2.0. It was all the other stuff like extremes and the big relic grinds after that.

That being said, the only place that does demand perfection, is for the most part, ultimates. There can be a few mistakes that are possible in the eariler ones due to power creep and potency changes, but take Dragonsong for example. You can't really screw up at all. Screwing up strength is a wipe, messing up the second half of sanctity a wipe, a mistake during dive from grace/enumerations, a wipe, a mistake on death, a wipe, dying to hrae, a wipe.

[Duskane]

that ribbon OP wearing looks like fish fins

[kaynide]

Have you ever considered that some find showing off their e-resume fun?

Nah, preposterous...

Weird choice of game for showing off your l33t gamer ski11z, especially in a world where a) professional e-sports exist and b) better/tighter competitive platforms exist.

Being really really good at 14 is fine, nothing wrong with that… but it’s comparable to being good at like… dance dance revolution or skeeball.