The health problem of hiding numbers while catering to high-end raiders

[kaynide]

Speaking from ignorance on savage level, but my impression was that endgame fine tuning was really only an issue for week 1 clears. Aren’t fights progressively easier as time goes by and raiders get better gear from weekly stuff?

…so doesn’t that make this whole thing moot? If a fight is so hard it can’t be cleared week 1…doesn’t it just get cleared week 2? Or 3?

Moreover, comparing the difficulty of 14s fights to other MMOs is rather disingenuous- 14 largely boils down to memorization and pre-planning and worst case, just waiting to get better gear that is guaranteed to come along. Most MMOs once you hit the ceiling, that’s it.


I think a big thing players need to remember: this game is intended for casual play. Originally they only added savage/ex/etc because they were surprised people wanted more to do once they finished 2.0. YoshiP had said he expected people would play, have fun, then go play other games during content drought..but people wanted more krunk… so they added relics with massive grinds and hard fights like binding coil. They want to cater to everyone, but hard-content players are not the target audience.


Remember they even made a tv drama entirely around a son carrying his dad through binding coil. That’s the target.

[Deveryn]

Speaking from ignorance on savage level, but my impression was that endgame fine tuning was really only an issue for week 1 clears. Aren’t fights progressively easier as time goes by and raiders get better gear from weekly stuff?

…so doesn’t that make this whole thing moot? If a fight is so hard it can’t be cleared week 1…doesn’t it just get cleared week 2? Or 3?

Moreover, comparing the difficulty of 14s fights to other MMOs is rather disingenuous- 14 largely boils down to memorization and pre-planning and worst case, just waiting to get better gear that is guaranteed to come along. Most MMOs once you hit the ceiling, that’s it.


I think a big thing players need to remember: this game is intended for casual play. Originally they only added savage/ex/etc because they were surprised people wanted more to do once they finished 2.0. YoshiP had said he expected people would play, have fun, then go play other games during content drought..but people wanted more krunk… so they added relics with massive grinds and hard fights like binding coil. They want to cater to everyone, but hard-content players are not the target audience.


Remember they even made a tv drama entirely around a son carrying his dad through binding coil. That’s the target.

This exactly.

Let's not forget people actually cleared on week 1. Some people are actually just that good. Everything we need to clear is already in the game. The content gets tuned for use with gear provided. Figure out your best stat build and get to learning. You have ample time to get things right. Things do get better as people get better gear and learn the fights more.

You don't need another meter to tell you how well you all did. There are already enough ways to tell. You either hit enrage or you didn't. If you did, maybe stop getting KO'd so much.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he used them himself during testing.

If they use those tools, then what's the point in continuing to use them once testing is complete?

[Amarande]

Speaking from ignorance on savage level, but my impression was that endgame fine tuning was really only an issue for week 1 clears. Aren’t fights progressively easier as time goes by and raiders get better gear from weekly stuff?

…so doesn’t that make this whole thing moot? If a fight is so hard it can’t be cleared week 1…doesn’t it just get cleared week 2? Or 3?

That's how it should work, but the player culture spoils it to a sufficient degree to make things annoying.

If you hold out for better gear before you plunge into Savage (or even EX's, especially the odd patch ones that are tuned at the same ilvl as 3rd-4th Savage fights) you make your task a priori easier, but that tends to be counterbalanced by the fact that you've now missed "the community wave" - especially if you must PF, as many are inclined or forced to by their work schedule.

Now you have the problem that the people who have a decent grip on mechanics are almost always hiding behind Duty Complete, with the result that you're forced to learn and get your first clear with a remaining player pool that increasingly has two left feet (and it often only takes one or two such players per party to make the whole thing a waste of time).

The upshot is that you get this situation where Yoshi intended you to be able to gear up first, but where the playerbase basically forces you to either rush it right away or wait for next tier or even for unsync (which can easily make one feel like a wimp who missed out, if one feels one could've cleared it during tier)

[kaynide]

That's how it should work, but the player culture spoils it to a sufficient degree to make things annoying.

If you hold out for better gear before you plunge into Savage (or even EX's, especially the odd patch ones that are tuned at the same ilvl as 3rd-4th Savage fights) you make your task a priori easier, but that tends to be counterbalanced by the fact that you've now missed "the community wave" - especially if you must PF, as many are inclined or forced to by their work schedule.

Now you have the problem that the people who have a decent grip on mechanics are almost always hiding behind Duty Complete, with the result that you're forced to learn and get your first clear with a remaining player pool that increasingly has two left feet (and it often only takes one or two such players per party to make the whole thing a waste of time).

The upshot is that you get this situation where Yoshi intended you to be able to gear up first, but where the playerbase basically forces you to either rush it right away or wait for next tier or even for unsync (which can easily make one feel like a wimp who missed out, if one feels one could've cleared it during tier)

Good insight- thank you. I basically don't touch any of it until I can basically solo/faceroll it with my circle of friends, but I get that there is some personal pride in it for people who wanna show off the newest gear/beat the newest challenge. That said, I'm certainly not saying "your/their fun certainly is wrong", and appreciate that there are different things for different interests.