Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[SaberMaxwell]

Name me one job that doesn't end up needing to plan multiple sometimes several GCDs ahead to make sure that things go smooth. I'm sure "you're not screwing up rdm" sitting there green parsing and wondering why while fleche clips a whole two more gcds because you didn't use acceleration right, followed by poorly planned and poorly executed 2 minute bursts because you emboldened too early and manafied too late. Maybe when you check your uptime percent later you'll even have an answer to why experienced RDM are getting two to three more melee combos over the fight than you got.

I get it, I get the argument and I agree but can we stop pretending RDM is somehow uniquely braindead among the current roster?

[CKNovel]

Name me one job that doesn't end up needing to plan multiple sometimes several GCDs ahead to make sure that things go smooth. I'm sure "you're not screwing up rdm" sitting there green parsing and wondering why while fleche clips a whole two more gcds because you didn't use acceleration right, followed by poorly planned and poorly executed 2 minute bursts because you emboldened too early and manafied too late. Maybe when you check your uptime percent later you'll even have an answer to why experienced RDM are getting two to three more melee combos over the fight than you got.

I get it, I get the argument and I agree but can we stop pretending RDM is somehow uniquely braindead among the current roster?

I wasn't quite clear, my bad on this one.
What I meant was that each job has their small difficulties.

My point wasn't to say that RDM is braindead, but that it's not complex either.

[SaberMaxwell]

I shouldn't snap either, I'm sorry. I agree with you 100%, and I believe you and I were of the same accord about jobs being easy until the point of optimization.

I should maybe just step away from this thread while FireMage is turning this into a pointless measuring contest between jobs.

[FireMage]

I shouldn't snap either, I'm sorry. I agree with you 100%, and I believe you and I were of the same accord about jobs being easy until the point of optimization.

I should maybe just step away from this thread while FireMage is turning this into a pointless measuring contest between jobs.

I'm merely stating what proper balance would be, which is something that would benefit basically everyone

[Mithron]

Yeah the casuals should definitely not be speaking

Isn't that why you've been called out for not clearing all Ultimates on multiple jobs on release? I agree, you should not be speaking.

[FireMage]

Isn't that why you've been called out for not clearing all Ultimates on multiple jobs on release? I agree, you should not be speaking.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Mithron. I love how you've tried to claim I use logical fallacies, then proceed to ad hominem. And not even well at that since it was inaccurate. Try better

[Aikaal]

Some people say casual shouldn't speak when they haven't even cleared DSR or they have just cleared P8S this week lol.

What is the definition of a casual and what's the definition of who has the right to speak on OF?

Short answer, anyone can talk on OF. I mean, you do.

In all seriousness, only people with proper knowledge with a background check should be talking regarding balance. What I mean is;
- Does the player have cleared ultimates (big bonus) and savage content on time?
- Does the player properly know the role he's talking about? (You'd be surprise how many people comes to OF "claiming" to voice true balance when they only play 1 job since Stormblood and it is of course much more harder to play than anything they haven't played.

Difficulty is subjective but one thing remains the absolute truth. Any job because very easy to play after countless hours on the job in high end difficulty. There's a few people who do manage to clear high end duty and they are legitimately average to mediocre players. They will always log grey no matter what and they can't seem to be able to play their job and their job is "hard". I have a brother who I raided with who couldn't play Warrior optimally. He just never cared enough but also he isn't on OF to say nonsense.

Then you have the other kind of player, the one who makes everything he touch looks so easy and good. They just know exactly how to optimize and play the job well. Great. They'll also say that pretty much any job is brain dead.

Objectively, on the caster role, BLM takes more time to learn than RDM/SMN. Just by looking on casters in term of complexity;
BLM : https://www.thebalanceffxiv.com/jobs...dvanced-guide/
SMN:

RDM: https://www.thebalanceffxiv.com/jobs...dvanced-guide/

You can sum it up by saying BLM has many options to optimize. To the point of stupidity. Summoner is impossible to optimize due to the nature of the job. RDM has some optimization. But I'll be real. I don't need some "advanced" guide to tell me it's best to embolden on a Verflare/Verholy. I sorta figured it out by doing basic mats of 12.7s+7.5s under a 20s buff window. Same for triple melee combo, you want to pot on Scorch. So with both up, Embolden > Verflare > Pot > Scorch is the most optimal gain. Same goes for Contre Sixte and Fleche. If they are up and you're like 5 seconds from buff windows. Unless you know it'll cost an extra Contre Sixte/Fleche at the end, you might want to hold them on rebuff window. But that optimization only works if you do speedruns and nobody is bringing a RDM for speedruns :') Also, I guess people can figure it out but I pot on 2/8 minutes if possible because 0/6 is really bad on RDM. Having 1 melee combo under a pot instead of 3 is a big oof.

You know, there's an amazing system in game on paper but is not so great on reality. It's call the Mentor role. There are a few great mentors and then there's the ones that are mentors for the burger king crown and they brag about it. "I'm Mentor and I say you pull it you tank it. I'm right, you're wrong because I'm Mentor."

[Urielparadox]

I wasn't quite clear, my bad on this one.
What I meant was that each job has their small difficulties.

My point wasn't to say that RDM is braindead, but that it's not complex either.

If this were true rdm would have a low damage spread, it in fact has a large one with lower prases being dramatically lower than high, and separating colors is clearly skill, and not just crit/dh/luck, looks at sam. This is also why rdm is currently rated low in damage, than brd or smn, while having the same potential damage. Rdm constantly doing math and evaluating your next movement, never missing or loosing a cast, and making sure to balance your gauges at the high end not the low end. When to stack acceleration and quick cast so u don't get down time. Red mage floor damage is easy to hit yes. Just like every jobs floor damage is easy to hit. Their max damage is much more difficult than samurai, reaper, dragoon or summoner. rdm just gets a lower pay out for maxing their damage out while the other jobs have higher damage ceilings, and much easier rotations. Yes I have secondary all those jobs at recent times trying to find one that clicks but they are all so simple and boring and the exact same. Drg defiantly has a higher skill cap than samurai, but coming from rdm and the higher amount of ogcd management is quite easy, considering most those jobs you rarely even have to double weave to maintain damage, yes they are much easier. They give you longer to plan your next move, and their rotation isn't effected by proc luck requiring constant adjustment, changes in decisions and inconstant timer locations in fights. If you aren't aware because of the quick cast rdm has 2 time cycles it can be part of. Front of cast cycle, end of cast cycle if your on the wrong time cycle for the wrong mechanic, going into your burst phase, ect you can not complete your cast, or a weaker skill end up under burst, so managing your instacast, jolts, procs, acceleration, and swift cast to make sure you end up in the right cast time cycle, to complete the cast you have to do during the mechanics and then adjust your cycle and make sure it aligned for the next mechanic. None of that level of thought goes into any movement a drg, sam, or reaper have to make they just follow a static flow.

[Zsolen]

RDM was never difficult and it never will be. It, only with SAM, came into existence during the dumbing down of the game. HW versions of DRK, AST, and MCH were all very different. But you know this already. So why pretend it is super complex?

In all seriousness, only people with proper knowledge with a background check should be talking regarding balance. What I mean is;
- Does the player have cleared ultimates (big bonus) and savage content on time?
- Does the player properly know the role he's talking about? (You'd be surprise how many people comes to OF "claiming" to voice true balance when they only play 1 job since Stormblood and it is of course much more harder to play than anything they haven't played.
"

Job changes affect everyone, not just those who have time or desire to play savage/ultimates. It's just that the greatest concentration of need is in that area, so it is the area that should have the focus. It is not the correct course of actions to speak only for oneself, but to try and balance the game for everyone.

Anyone that believes that only certain people can talk at the table are actual elitists and elitists are generally overcompensating for something. The same is true in the pvp world.

[Ransu]

Name me one job that doesn't end up needing to plan multiple sometimes several GCDs ahead to make sure that things go smooth. I'm sure "you're not screwing up rdm" sitting there green parsing and wondering why while fleche clips a whole two more gcds because you didn't use acceleration right, followed by poorly planned and poorly executed 2 minute bursts because you emboldened too early and manafied too late. Maybe when you check your uptime percent later you'll even have an answer to why experienced RDM are getting two to three more melee combos over the fight than you got.

I get it, I get the argument and I agree but can we stop pretending RDM is somehow uniquely braindead among the current roster?

Samurai requires no planning. Its loop is set in stone and P3S is about the only fight that interrupts its loop when the boss becomes un-targatable. For the spread/stack mechanic making the downtime longer than the necessary filler for the loop. Its one of the main reasons I've always liked SAM because of its loop rotation. Its probably why I like BLM too, though they actually require some planning for leylines and its much more rewarding to play than SAM atm.

Realistically none of the bosses have any actual downtime anymore so none of the melee really require any major changes to their rotations. At most you have to plan for some drift and maybe slightly alter an opener depending on what the boss does. A handful of jobs openers change slightly depending on what boss you're fighting making the countdown timers needing to be different, but realistically outside of BLM the "plan several GCD's ahead" idea is not a thing. RDM has to plan things to some degree because its ironically less mobile than BLM at times, but overall they still have a bit more freedom than BLM and are not locked down to a strict window like BLM is with enochian.

BLM, NIN, and to a point DRG because of how busy its oGCD's can be are imo the only jobs that require you to pay close attention to what you're doing. The rest of the jobs in the game really don't take much of a thought process and you can parse high on all of them while being asleep. If this was still HW and to a point SB I wouldn't be making this argument, but since ShB and into EW all the of the jobs have become relatively simple. So ya, I keep to the point that balancing around "difficulty" of a job is beyond stupid.

I'm merely stating what proper balance would be, which is something that would benefit basically everyone

Except for MCH and SMN because your idea of balance would bury them to the point that they may as well not exist.