Let's redefine "damage taxes"

[fulminating]

It would certainly give the summoner castration a run for its money. Don’t worry though, I’m sure plenty will crawl out of the woodwork to praise and continue never playing it.

[MagiusNecros]

I honestly dunno what to think about the Ruin Mage. It just feels so clunky. It feels like a class with "Joystick and one button" as the design template.

And given how many summons we have fought and defeated we should have a whole repertoire of Summon Options to use. And we only have 5? Big oof.

Blue Mage keeps on winning.

SMN: Ifrit
Titan
Garuda
Bahamut
Phoenix

BLU: Ifrit
Titan
Garuda
Siren
Leviathan
Shiva
Typhon
Ravana
Sophia
Brute Justice
Lakshmi
Phantom Train
Genbu
Suzaku
Tsukuyomi

And a Summoner without Shiva feels like a swing and a miss if you ask me. I'm certain Summoner is on the right track but we are only halfway there I feel.

[Mithron]

And a Summoner without Shiva feels like a swing and a miss if you ask me. I'm certain Summoner is on the right track but we are only halfway there I feel.

Yeah, I think this is just the framework that they're gonna build off for SMN going forward. They'll probably make Elemental Mastery more like level 70, and then introduce Ramuh, Leviathan and Shiva as additional legos after Phoenix. Then after those 3, we'll go from Phoenix to Alexander and finally Diabolos before swapping back to Bahamut. I love the concept of each lego and summon having their own buttons and playstyle, so I'd like to see additional OGCDs for each lego to both increase complexity and APM. I also don't think they should have so many instant cast GCDs, both Titan and Garuda need to have cast times. I think it's fine if the "big" summons don't like Bahamut and Phoenix.

And personally, I want every summon to have a unique aura affect, like Phoenix has currently. This would make them BRD-like for the caster role.

[MagiusNecros]

Well personally I like the idea of a melee mage that Summoner is now...but I think that right now the job is in a incomplete state. Technically you already have cast times if you adopt a Ruin 3 playstyle where you pop your summon and then cast Ruin 3 > Titan > Mountain Buster or Ruin 3 > Garuda.

But it really depends. But that probably doesn't matter too much. I find that just blowing your load amounts to more damage in dungeon runs and bosses if anything.

And running SMN unsynced in low level Dungeons is AMAZING for GC seal farming. 5-7 minute runs in Sirensong Sea. About the same time as a optimized Basic Instinct BLU.

I think it's just missing something and the Necromancer skills are probably gonna get tossed next expansion.

[CKNovel]

The problem with SMN is that adding more summons would simply results in the same gameplay.
If SMN would cycle on 90s rather than 60s, maybe it could help to free space for job creativity.

Lorewise wouldn't it feel pretty weird to summon Shiva as she's a person before being a primal?
What if SMN had 90s ability that could empower and extend a specific summon, for example summons Eden Titan instead of regular Titan?
And yes it would come with the kart.

In my opinion, SMN would benefit greatly by separating itself from the 120s meta.
But that's another topic.

[Boffy]

From what I hear of people's opinions, everything would feel better away from the 120s meta.

[Mortex]

The rework is coming from the same devs that removed Kaiten because button bloat. I don't main, play or care about Paladin in the slightest but call me pessimistic on the outlook on that job's mini-rework. I will be pleasantly surprised if Paladin comes out for the better. But...I doubt that'll be the case.



You're back!!!! This thread hasn't been the same since you disappeared :'(

I mean one of the job designer is a Paladin player If I remember correctly. If that is really the cause the job will be good and if not yeah it’s gonna blows.

[Dzian]

proper balance

Proper balance would be every single job in the game making a perfectly equal contribution when played to 100% of its capability.

It's kinda impossible to hit though because some contributions can be difficult to quantify.

RDM and SMN both have raise for example. However in my opinion just having access to raise should not mean those jobs are notably weaker than BLM in damage.

In a fight where those raises aren't needed they contribute absolutely zero to the party, Where as in a fight where those raises are needed, they already come at the cost of reducing the damage those jobs contribute.

How easy or difficult a job is to play should have ZERO impact on proper balance. In a well-designed environment they might all have different skill floors or different skill curves but at the ceiling, they would almost all be perfectly equal in terms of overall contribution. Not really possible in this game for numerous reasons. *EPIC PAINT SKILLZ ALERT*

This would loosely represent proper balance.

Job A might be your average job with an almost linear skill curve. An almost direct correlation between effort and contribution

Job B might be seen as an easier job for beginners to pick up because it makes a greater contribution to the party for less effort. but at the same time after a point in player skill or effort, it becomes harder to optimize than Job A.

Job C might be seen as a harder job for newer or less experienced players as it requires significantly more effort to compete with jobs A and B but also ends up being easier to optimize.

But when played to 100% all 3 jobs make an almost equal contribution to the party. That's proper balance. So in theory given that MCH SMN and BLM all contribute absolutely nothing but DPS to the party. At the skill ceilieng they should all do the same amount of damage in order to make an equal contribution and thus be properly balanced, regardless of how easy or difficult they are to play.

Arbitarily making a job contribute less because its easier is flawed. people choose jobs based on thematics and aesthetics more than how easy or hard they are to play.

SMN is one of the most difficult jobs to play.... the difficulty isnt its rotation though its just staying awake...

[Aurora428]

Part of the fun of playing a particular job is its contribution to the team.

Prange/caster simply just isn't fun if it's held down by an arbitrary bonus.

Yes shooting a gun is very fun and cool, but it takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to not be aware that you are also good at Samurai and could just be doing 1k more dps.

If someone asked me to point out a single flaw with this game, it would be the "DPS dumpster bin" we only see claim more and more jobs with time since ShB.

This is something they REALLY just need to let go of. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater with the Pierce Down meta.

[FireMage]

Proper balance would be every single job in the game making a perfectly equal contribution when played to 100% of its capability.

It's kinda impossible to hit though because some contributions can be difficult to quantify.

RDM and SMN both have raise for example. However in my opinion just having access to raise should not mean those jobs are notably weaker than BLM in damage.

In a fight where those raises aren't needed they contribute absolutely zero to the party, Where as in a fight where those raises are needed, they already come at the cost of reducing the damage those jobs contribute.

How easy or difficult a job is to play should have ZERO impact on proper balance. In a well-designed environment they might all have different skill floors or different skill curves but at the ceiling, they would almost all be perfectly equal in terms of overall contribution. Not really possible in this game for numerous reasons. *EPIC PAINT SKILLZ ALERT*

This would loosely represent proper balance.

Job A might be your average job with an almost linear skill curve. An almost direct correlation between effort and contribution

Job B might be seen as an easier job for beginners to pick up because it makes a greater contribution to the party for less effort. but at the same time after a point in player skill or effort, it becomes harder to optimize than Job A.

Job C might be seen as a harder job for newer or less experienced players as it requires significantly more effort to compete with jobs A and B but also ends up being easier to optimize.

But when played to 100% all 3 jobs make an almost equal contribution to the party. That's proper balance. So in theory given that MCH SMN and BLM all contribute absolutely nothing but DPS to the party. At the skill ceilieng they should all do the same amount of damage in order to make an equal contribution and thus be properly balanced, regardless of how easy or difficult they are to play.

Arbitarily making a job contribute less because its easier is flawed. people choose jobs based on thematics and aesthetics more than how easy or hard they are to play.

SMN is one of the most difficult jobs to play.... the difficulty isnt its rotation though its just staying awake...

And the flaw, as gone over MULTIPLE times, is that making it equal isn't actual balance. There is no incentive to BLM if it does similar damage while also being more punishing