Why use a Dragoon or Monk when you can use a Warrior?

[Kitfox]

A warrior, who is not tanking, has to use berserk to boost his damage. This makes their defence crap and only the defence they have is their high HP and foresight/featherfoot. This is means WAR has to avoid getting hate and AoEs just the same as any other DD. The problem is, WAR doesn't have hate reduction abilities. In the contrary Steel Cyclone Combo enhances enmity gain.

MNK and DRG specialize in dealing damage. Even if they have lower HP pool, they have hate reduction ablities, which raise their max dmg output cap (until hate shifts). They also have ablities that further boost their damage to reach that higher dmg cap. One could argue that WARs' Berserk is on par with MNK and DRGs' DD ablities, which it isn't imo, but WAR still loses in max dmg cap and steals hate much easier. And like I said, while using Berserk, WAR is definitely NOT in tanking state, not to mention that getting hit will gimp Berserk effect further decreasing WAR dmg output. That simply concludes that MNK/DRG>WAR for DD. Why is this even a discussion?

WAR tanking and using Rampage is balanced with MNK and DRG, because then they don't have to worry about keeping their enmity down.

[Velhart]

They'd have to buff PLD single target/aoe DPS to be comparable to WAR for any smart linkshell to roll with one instead of WAR. This all just goes back to why MRD > GLA pre jobs. WAR has the better aoe for princess. WAR has the better single target for Chim/Mistress/Coincounter.

The problem is, the only way I see PLD being top choice again is if they gimp WAR's AoE like they did in 1.20. It is a sensitive issue because that is the main appeal of the Warrior is his AoE and ability to tank off that. So I think instead of gimping WAR, PLDs should excel. Meaning, they need more leverage in defense, because right now, my WAR ges hit just as hard as my PLD, but has way more HP to work with. Basically, defense needs to be fixed if PLD is no suppose to have high HP. So far all PLD is good at is holding hate.

[Mfor]

And it's thread's like this which will get warrior nerfed. Nice going OP.

[tachikoma]

Honestly, I don't see a reason to.

Monks may be worth a spot on one or maybe two encounters due to their higher dps. I wouldn't bring a Dragoon over a Warrior ever. In the grand scheme, Warriors are simply much better all around than either of the other two melee jobs. Most of the setups in my LS and outside are either range stacked or Warrior stacked. The best tank job is also the best all-around melee job. Their damage, their AoE damage, and their survivability in combination makes Warriors the best choice in most cases. I understand they are making some changes for Paladins, but how about for Dragoons and Monks?

I don't want to talk about range v. melee, just simply melee v. melee in this thread.

Maybe your dps on warrior is comparable to LNC simply because you play with BAD ppl who don't know what they are doing on LNC. The single target dps on LNC is higher then WAR if played correctly. IMO LNC is the easiest job to play bad, its really hard to keep everything on cooldown especially in hectic fights like princess, the acc issue makes it a reasonable gear check on many targets that you just don't see on the other jobs (except blm).

[tachikoma]

They'd have to buff PLD single target/aoe DPS to be comparable to WAR for any smart linkshell to roll with one instead of WAR. This all just goes back to why MRD > GLA pre jobs. WAR has the better aoe for princess. WAR has the better single target for Chim/Mistress/Coincounter.

Or raise the enmity threashold of PLD to a point where the loss in dps makes up for better hate control. Allow other dps to go harder speed up the fights.

[Lux_Rayna]

Maybe your dps on warrior is comparable to LNC simply because you play with BAD ppl who don't know what they are doing on LNC. The single target dps on LNC is higher then WAR if played correctly. IMO LNC is the easiest job to play bad, its really hard to keep everything on cooldown especially in hectic fights like princess, the acc issue makes it a reasonable gear check on many targets that you just don't see on the other jobs (except blm).

Animation lock makes it even harder. LNC is in the most danger of death because you are constantly using WS's, and every WS puts you at risk of insta-death. I love it though, makes you focus like a shaolin monk going for dat pesky pebble.

[Molic]

So this post is kind of jumbled and i dont really know where i went with this... i just kept typing... If you find any points that are worth anything in that mess, good for you. Also, the thread is long so sorry if i covered stuff someone else said.

I think if they gave Drg/mnk some better survive ability options vs raid boss they would be better or just increase their hp. I think this would also help with the fact that people wouldn't stack range/magic jobs anymore, cause brd/blm don't get hit by bosses aoe and melee do. D:.

Lets face it if wars can survive longer that means they do more dmg, and since a lot of mobs have massive aoe moves or cone attacks and for a lot of people unfortunately this is a problem cause they don't move out of the way fast enough. ie coincutter, mistress, princess. Environment will eventually kill melee to {chimera fight}. also the frontal cone attacks, make half the combos useless if people want you to melee in back, and for chimera you proc his scorpion tail if your behind him, which may hit/kill mages if they are close, which makes another problem if combos start from teh back.

This is all if you don't pay attention and don't position yourself well though, if you pay attention combos shouldn't be a problem or you should be able to avoid aoe, cone moves. But sometimes mnk and drg kind of get shafted as they can't always deal damage during a fight cause they will get killed by something if they don't back off, where blm/brd/war can just deal damage at a steady rate. IE sandtraps on chimera, puddles mistress, slugs pop on coincutter(gotta kill slugs so war doesnt get amnisaed), drg more then monk got shafted i think since a pack of mnks can just zerg mistress. so thats why i think if they either got a boost to hp or better survive ability options (featherfoot can dodge all moves or dodges 2 moves, maybe drg gets more def or something,)

[Lux_Rayna]

This is all if you don't pay attention and don't position yourself well though, if you pay attention combos shouldn't be a problem or you should be able to avoid aoe, cone moves. But sometimes mnk and drg kind of get shafted as they can't always deal damage during a fight cause they will get killed by something if they don't back off, where blm/brd/war can just deal damage at a steady rate. IE sandtraps on chimera, puddles mistress, slugs pop on coincutter(gotta kill slugs so war doesnt get amnisaed), drg more then monk got shafted i think since a pack of mnks can just zerg mistress. so thats why i think if they either got a boost to hp or better survive ability options (featherfoot can dodge all moves or dodges 2 moves, maybe drg gets more def or something,)

Basically I got: "SE should balance classes around idiots because ppl are bound to be stupid"

Disagree with the first part, agree with the 2nd. Ppl are bound to be stupid but no class should be balanced around the actions of morons. MNK and DRG are fine imo, ppl just need to learn how to not be stupid. As you can see for yourself by reading the forums, it is an impossible task. Let idiots do waht they do, ppl just need to remember that an idiot is not a reflection of the job.

[Rydin]

Basically I got: "SE should balance classes around idiots because ppl are bound to be stupid"

The sad thing is, I would not enjoy that type of stance from SE, but the resulting game would probably be popular and successful

[Veil]

Honestly, I don't see a reason to.

I do.

Play the job you like best, you'll be much happier.