What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

Hard agree. What you've described is a more effective way to make it so that the story makes sense when they try to push the "tales of loss" bit, if only by virtue of the sacrifices lasting longer than 30 minutes. Some of these characters shouldn't come back, with those that do being able to take on more active roles in the future where we can see their arcs continue to progress.

[Vahlnir]

Agreed. I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

This would have been an excellent approach. I still would have said "dangit, I thought I was finally rid of at least one of them!" but it still would have been well played from a writing standpoint.

[Lustre]

Agreed. I feel the big problem here was how it was presented. It was the last zone, of course we knew they were copouts and how it was going to end. Had the script been written with us losing each Scion one by one after the Final Days started, somebody in Radz, somebody in Thavnair, somebody in Garlemald, Thancred's sacrifice, Estinien's sacrifice, and then culminating in losing the twins before the final walk, THAT would have made it hit even harder. Yes, them coming back would still be a bit of a cop out, but I think a lot of us would have accepted it a hell of a lot better.

This would've been much better, I agree. The entirety of UT felt hard to enjoy due to how transparent and fake the deaths were. "here's a device to bring us back, but dont use it hehe!!!" get real. Then the completely out of character moment from Emet. It didn't feel realistic in the context of everything that came before.

I disagree on the whole "storys need to be focused on emotion before anything else" take above the Ryu. When that happens, you get plots full of holes just to try and drag emotions out of the audience. It needs to make sense, logically, first and foremost, and then you can start adding layers of depth and intricates to incite said emotions. In context of XIV entire plot, it's like, a pretty good story that ebbs and flows in quality but is mostly rather consistent outside of a few areas, and then all of a sudden it's "LOOK AT THE SAD KITTEN AWWW" and a man in front of the stage raises a "Now Cry" sign in front of the audience. It just felt.... gross. I've said it a million times before but you can sum up EW in three words. "Convenient, Contrived, and Cheap".

[Midareyukki]

This would have been an excellent approach. I still would have said "dangit, I thought I was finally rid of at least one of them!" but it still would have been well played from a writing standpoint.

Even I who don't necessarily want to be rid of any of them agree with Ryu there. Because the execution was just a mess imo. Okay, sure, you want to provide shock and tension in the last area, but it's so corny, what you're doing is so obvious that I couldn't quite take it seriously. And Y'shtola outright admitting there's a way to bring everyone back just makes me question why the sacrifices were added to begin with xD

[Vahlnir]

Even I who don't necessarily want to be rid of any of them agree with Ryu there. Because the execution was just a mess imo. Okay, sure, you want to provide shock and tension in the last area, but it's so corny, what you're doing is so obvious that I couldn't quite take it seriously. And Y'shtola outright admitting there's a way to bring everyone back just makes me question why the sacrifices were added to begin with xD

There really wasn't much point to any of it. Thancred's "death" was the one that was the least forced. If they were going to commit to one, that would have been the one to go with. I don't mind Thancred, but I think that would have been an excellent place and time to send him off. He would have gone down swinging. A good death for him as a character and a gunbreaker to boot.

[Boblawblah]

makes me question why the sacrifices were added to begin with xD

so you think that Ultima Thule would have had just as much weight if the Scions hadn't given themselves to fight despair to pave the way for the WoL to get to Metion? I can understand you not enjoying Ultima Thule, I can't understand you just out right ignoring the whole point of why they "sacrificed" themselves.

[Midareyukki]

so you think that Ultima Thule would have had just as much weight if the Scions hadn't given themselves to fight despair to pave the way for the WoL to get to Metion? I can understand you not enjoying Ultima Thule, I can't understand you just out right ignoring the whole point of why they "sacrificed" themselves.

You know darn well I didn't say that, go read it again before being snide.

God you're so irritating! You take things out of context and trash on people's post to make them look bad.

I SAID THE EXECUTION WAS BAD

not that the idea itself was bad

I SAID THAT THEY MADE IT TOO OBVIOUS

not that they shouldn't have sacrifices to begin with

DO YA GET IT DO YA GET IT???

[Theodric]

I'd just like balanced storytelling. It wasn't the Scions who drew me into this game, it was the Ascians and the Garleans - especially when both were fleshed out further over the years. I like the Voidsent as well.

A not insignificant amount of us played or play other MMO's. Yoshi-P claims to be a fan of World of Warcraft but I don't see it. I have many complaints about the direction WoW took but much like TESO does it at least bothers to throw more of a bone to fans of non-playable factions and villains/antagonists.

Endwalker would have been fine if it killed off one or two of the Scions and remained consistent in the lines in the sand it had drawn as to what is and is not acceptable when it comes to morality.

...and if we had a final boss that didn't spend 40% of her health bar mindlessly flailing around.

[Vahlnir]

...and if we had a final boss that didn't spend 40% of her health bar mindlessly flailing around.

This was honestly one of the only things that truly made sense to me. A being fueled 95% by emotion just threw everything she had at us including the kitchen sink, and it accomplished nothing. All she had left was to cry, scream and flail. She basically just...broke down mentally. Now realistically, she should have really started to bring the pain in that moment. Just throw everything at us at once like Barbariccia, except with no method to her madness. Just chaos. Planets crashing, stars imploding. Pools of black tears everywhere. Now THAT would have been glorious to me. It could have been better, for sure. But for what it was it made complete sense. I haven't done the Extreme version of that fight though, so I can't really comment on it.

[Striker44]

I'd just like balanced storytelling. It wasn't the Scions who drew me into this game, it was the Ascians and the Garleans - especially when both were fleshed out further over the years. I like the Voidsent as well.

A not insignificant amount of us played or play other MMO's. Yoshi-P claims to be a fan of World of Warcraft but I don't see it. I have many complaints about the direction WoW took but much like TESO does it at least bothers to throw more of a bone to fans of non-playable factions and villains/antagonists.

Endwalker would have been fine if it killed off one or two of the Scions and remained consistent in the lines in the sand it had drawn as to what is and is not acceptable when it comes to morality.

...and if we had a final boss that didn't spend 40% of her health bar mindlessly flailing around.

From what I've seen, the "influence" that Yoshi-P brought from WoW has nothing to do with the storytelling, but rather the gearing system. He borrowed from the WotLK-era WoW that featured tokens and badges (i.e. tomestones) which people generally loved, and one of the biggest complaints aside from the story that people bring to WoW was the move away from that kind of system to the e-sports M+ approach as the way to gear. It's the underlying gameplay system that he recognized was a huge strong point for WoW that he brought over to FFXIV.

And I feel the end of the final boss fight makes perfect sense. After throwing everything at us, including a mega-LB that we block with our own (which itself confuses her because she doesn't expect us to have dynamis power given how the Ancients didn't), she then immediately throws a second mega-LB that she feels should be absolutely unblockable, but we do with the help of our friends (Scions). She's just at a total loss now, which frankly makes sense. She's thrown everything at us, including the kitchen sink, and we're still there. She just doesn't know what to do and basically panics. The music transition at that point I also absolutely loved, and the last part of the fight is basically "the tide has turned". Meteion has no idea what to do anymore, and we have the momentum now.