3% HP nerf, what a giant slap in the dev's face

[Saimeren]

Overtune 3%. LMAO. Do you understand what 1800 rdps means?
You can now clear with 5 deaths and 8 damage downs. The 3% just shows that how bad job balance is now.

Raid tuning is not job balance my dude. Job balance is literally balancing the jobs between themselves to make sure there aren't vast discrepancies between the high and low ends.

Raid tuning is adjusting numbers in a particular raid to make it easier or harder.

[CKNovel]

Raid tuning is not job balance my dude. Job balance is literally balancing the jobs between themselves top make sure there aren't vast discrepancies between the high and low ends.

Two employees for the same job have a paygap.
The living wage is 1500€ a month.
One gets 1000€ a month.
Two gets 2000€ a month.

One complains about the paygap with Two.
In response, the living wage is reduced to 1000€.

The paygap still exists and remains a problem.

The raid should've never been tuned.
Buffing SMN, BLM, RDM, MCH, PLD and WAR would've been far enough.

[Saimeren]

Two employees for the same job have a paygap.
The living wage is 1500€ a month.
One gets 1000€ a month.
Two gets 2000€ a month.

One complains about the paygap with Two.
In response, the living wage is reduced to 1000€.

The paygap still exists and remains a problem.

The raid should've never been tuned.
Buffing SMN, BLM, RDM, MCH, PLD and WAR would've been far enough.

I have a question for you. What do you think is easier and more efficient for them? Reducing a single bosses HP? Or increasing the potencies of several abilities for several jobs and then having to do a bunch of testing to make sure they're not over or under tuned?

Square Enix is a business and it's going to prioritize efficiency. Square obviously feels that every job is situated relatively well or else they would have gotten buffs outside of paladin and warrior.

They're clearly comfortable in their belief that all jobs can do all content.

[CKNovel]

I have a question for you. What do you think is easier and more efficient for them? Reducing a single bosses HP? Or increasing the potencies of several abilities for several jobs and then having to do a bunch of testing to make sure they're not over or under tuned?

This is an interesting question.
I'll argue that tuning the boss HP is the least efficient choice.
Jobs remains unbalanced and will have to be balanced in the future. Or jobs like MCH will remain this way until 7.0.
Also, they bothered with buffing PLD and WAR. Why, knowing they could just reduce the boss HP by an extra 1%?

The problem lies with content that is still ongoing such as DSR, where it will be easier because of buffs.
We're week 3 now, any unbalancing can be counter balanced with gear.

The point is, SQEX answered two different problems. The unbalancing of job and the tight DPS check. But we still end up with one problem they will eventually have to adress.
Tuning boss HP was the short term solution but balancing was a long term solution.
In fact they could've thrown a first set of buff to close a big the gaps and then take the next weeks to balance correctly.

[Saimeren]

This is an interesting question.
I'll argue that tuning the boss HP is the least efficient choice.
Jobs remains unbalanced and will have to be balanced in the future. Or jobs like MCH will remain this way until 7.0.
Also, they bothered with buffing PLD and WAR. Why, knowing they could just reduce the boss HP by an extra 1%?

The problem lies with content that is still ongoing such as DSR, where it will be easier because of buffs.
We're week 3 now, any unbalancing can be counter balanced with gear.

The point is, SQEX answered two different problems. The unbalancing of job and the tight DPS check. But we still end up with one problem they will eventually have to adress.
Tuning boss HP was the short term solution but balancing was a long term solution.
In fact they could've thrown a first set of buff to close a big the gaps and then take the next weeks to balance correctly.

You're right, nerfing the boss is a bandaid fix to what some view as a larger problem. However, it's the quickest and easiest solution to getting results while people are still doing progression runs.

They felt the need to make adjustments quickly and the best way to get that done was to nerf one thing rather than buff seven. (Again; taking all the testing time into consideration.) This change is a quick fix to make sure the raid is tuned properly. This then gives them a month and a bit to work on job balance issues for the 6.3 release rather than trying to rush out so many job changes in such a short window.

And you know that had they done that you'd be here complaining that they rushed job changes and didn't test them properly. (Look at how black mage pvp turned out.)

I'm betting the reason the tanks got dps buffs and the dps didn't is because the tanks don't really deal THAT much damage. Not in the grand scheme of things. Not compared to dps jobs.

Changing a tanks dps potencies is isn't going to break the game. Changing the potencies for five dps jobs will.

[Kachou_]

You're right, nerfing the boss is a bandaid fix to what some view as a larger problem. However, it's the quickest and easiest solution to getting results while people are still doing progression runs.

They felt the need to make adjustments quickly and the best way to get that done was to nerf one thing rather than buff seven. (Again; taking all the testing time into consideration.) This change is a quick fix to make sure the raid is tuned properly. This then gives them a month and a bit to work on job balance issues for the 6.3 release rather than trying to rush out so many job changes in such a short window.

And you know that had they done that you'd be here complaining that they rushed job changes and didn't test them properly. (Look at how black mage pvp turned out.)

I'm betting the reason the tanks got dps buffs and the dps didn't is because the tanks don't really deal THAT much damage. Not in the grand scheme of things. Not compared to dps jobs.

Changing a tanks dps potencies is isn't going to break the game. Changing the potencies for five dps jobs will.

How is nerfing 3% HP of a boss not game breaking tho. Based on fflogs, if you still run a meta comp, you can now clear the fight with 5 deaths and 4 damage downs. There are teams that can do up to 63000 dps in first week and now dps check is 60000?? In PLL they said this savage tier is going to be normal difficulty-wise. Now it is a joke.

If you think from the perspective of shit dps players, not buffing simply means the devs believe that it is proper for you to do SHIT DPS. You can argue that they just want more time to test. Just see if all the players buy that shit. If they really "run the tests" then how tf did 6.2 got released in the first place? They don't have time to "test"???

At least give people some copium by saying we are still investigating to see anything else need to change. Instead of saying "YOU ARE JUST BAD"

[TabrisOmbrelame]

Raid tuning is not job balance my dude. Job balance is literally balancing the jobs between themselves top make sure there aren't vast discrepancies between the high and low ends.

Raid tuning is adjusting numbers in a particular raid to make it easier or harder.

I will go even further than that.

Actually, a 3% Nerf on the boss HP isn't that big of a deal. If my calculation are exact (and they may be wrong), P8S P1 lost less than 1 million HP (I've found something around 860k HP)

But even then, if we take somehow convert this into Potency, it's a nerf of 630 Potency per minute required for the fight. Corresponding to the 1800 rDPS he was talking about.

Now, we know that Warrior got a slight buff, and the PLD got quite a powerfull one. I think those two are now viable tank with the HP nerf + the buff. That still won't change anything about balance of course.

In order to have proper balance, SE need to be sure that every single composition is able to clear Week 1. Clearly, that wasn't the case, because PLD/WAR/MCH weren't able to output a sufficient DPS to beat P8S.

Even if the MCH is really ahead in term of aDPS against Dancer and Bard, he suffer in term of rDPS. The only reason is, the more powerfull the team is, the more rDPS a dancer or bard will get, and it will be by a significant margin. Today, MCH is clearly eating the dust because of that.

When a Selfishclass like SAM or BLM is buffed, they need to buff every Selfish class. That's because any buff on them will give more rDPS to any buffer indirectly. "Samourai get buffed ? more rDPS for Dancer".

So yeah, 1800 rDPS may be huge for some people, but at least, any classes can clear the content now. They just need to balance things better.

[Kachou_]

Raid tuning is not job balance my dude. Job balance is literally balancing the jobs between themselves to make sure there aren't vast discrepancies between the high and low ends.

Raid tuning is adjusting numbers in a particular raid to make it easier or harder.

It seems that you did not understand what I am saying. This tier is particularly hard to clear for certain jobs so they have to nerf it to a position where you can clear it with your eyes closed. There were zero problems clearing it with NORMAL JOBS before the nerf. But for some shit job comps, the fight has to be nerfed 1800 rdps so the shit comp teams can clear.

Also, apparently, they tested the fight with meta comp so the DPScheck is so off. Because when the devs claim they can easily clear the fight. There are some comps that are statistically impossible to clear. Apparently, they did not test these jobs.

Fight tuning is so bad because the dev team did not properly test their game and failed to identify the obvious balance problem. And they tune the fight based on a meta comp's performance. Period.

If you want proof, you can find a video of the dev team apologizing for only using samurai to test Eden 5-8.
Also, the devs claim that the DPScheck is not changed. So they likely tested in a first-week setting. You can try to run any comp other than GNB DRK WHM SCH SAM (ANY MELEE) BLM DNC. I can guarantee you there is zero chance you can clear consistently(as the devs claim they can) with that comp using first-week gear. That's why I am damn sure they only tested with what later turns out to be meta comp.

[Stasya]

Fight tuning is so bad because the dev team did not properly test their game and failed to identify the obvious balance problem. And they tune the fight based on a meta comp's performance. Period.

I do wonder how SE white knights can be so high on copium and take this dumbest excuse that devs just play better as granted.
There are couple stuff that people mention that we got from devs themself that really points at their lazyness when it comes to balance and raid tuning, even ultimate.
Instead of fixing stuff they just slapped a band aid fix.

Now p8s has almost same dps check as p7s cool.

[Kachou_]

Raid tuning is not job balance my dude. Job balance is literally balancing the jobs between themselves to make sure there aren't vast discrepancies between the high and low ends.

Raid tuning is adjusting numbers in a particular raid to make it easier or harder.

I made a previous post before the 6.21 patch claiming they must have overlooked the job balance problem by only testing the game with too few comps. And ultimately result in the abnormally high DPS check. Combine this with the fact that devs already have a bad reputation for skipping some jobs when playtesting raids(Eden 5-8). In my opinion, the giant 3% 1800 DPS nerf is perfect evidence that the devs did a really bad job.