DRK vs. WAR: how do they compare?

[RyuDragnier]

Everything warrior does drk does better, why bother?

Wait, DRK has insane self-sustain to where it can easily heal itself?

[wyznwyb]

Wait, DRK has insane self-sustain to where it can easily heal itself?

the only environment warrior actually has better mitigation than any other tank is in the exact, specific context of wall-to-walling in dungeons, an environment which none of the tanks are actually balanced around--and to be frank, dark knight isn't even that much worse when you actually consider how quickly mobs melt with all of its AOE abilities. otherwise, warrior's short-term mitigation is worse, with an underwhelming heal on single target, a tiny shield and a 10% mitigation when every other tank has an equivalent that is far better (and, in the blackest night's case, has a much shorter cooldown), and its one unique party-wide mitigation requires you to spend at least one other mitigation to be useful compared to something like dark missionary. its one niche in 6.0 was that it had a short cooldown on holmgang, except not only does dark knight have an objectively better version of holmgang after 6.1 with an only slightly longer cooldown, but because every tankbuster in 6.2 gives a massive bleed/poison that can immediately kill the tank if they aren't actively mitigating it anyways, the one thing you used holmgang on is simply not something you do anymore.

people confuse dark knight's mitigations being unwieldy as them being weak, and to be honest, it's the perception of dark knight's stuff being weak that's most of the reason dark knight is absurdly strong right now. the way you've described oblation in another thread is a perfect example of this; dark knight is the only tank that can immediately give three single-target mitigations to other party members for very little cost, something that even paladin, the support tank, isn't allowed to do, and something that can actively save runs the moment a fight actually stresses good mitigation like in the most recent ultimate, but because two of those mitigations are merely good enough to make people survive attacks that'd kill them, as opposed to being two charges of nascent flash, is that truly supposed to be not good enough?

[Oizen]

We just pretending that Nascent flash doesnt exist again right

[ForteNightshade]

We just pretending that Nascent flash doesnt exist again right

Nascent Flash/Bloodwhetting are comically overrated. In a dungeon setting, the latter is an absolute monster. No doubt about it. Alas, in Savage, Heart of Corundum is simply better. Even TBN is comparable. At the end of the day, self-healing simply isn't as good as mitigation.

[RyuDragnier]

Nascent Flash/Bloodwhetting are comically overrated. In a dungeon setting, the latter is an absolute monster. No doubt about it. Alas, in Savage, Heart of Corundum is simply better. Even TBN is comparable. At the end of the day, self-healing simply isn't as good as mitigation.

If you're with a healer who you know. If you don't know the healer or if they're underperforming, you'd rather have the self-healing, every day of the week.

[Absurdity]

If you're with a healer who you know. If you don't know the healer or if they're underperforming, you'd rather have the self-healing, every day of the week.

Except that Bloodwhetting can't save you there either, it's not any stronger than HoC or Holy Shelltron in a single target situation.

[Absimiliard]

In a nutshell, Warriors are the best main tank in the game, Drks are the best off tank in the game. Warriors have decent damage almost the same as DRK's but with much greater sustain, Dark's damage is higher than warriors so taking one give a dps increase and added in that they can use TBN on allies means you can aid the main tank when tank busters hit allowing you to dps more.

I.. what? Where would you even get some of these ideas? Even after the 6.21 buff WAR is still lagging way the heck behind DRK. There is a significant problem with their DPS at this time.

That WAR sustain is super overestimated, too. It's great in dungeons, but it won't get you very far in raids. The dots and other debuffs being left behind by tankbusters this time around pretty much negate that advantage right out of hand, so all people start noticing is the fact the WAR just took more damage than a DRK would have because its mitigation isn't as beefy.

[MrZalgo]

After having played WAR for the entirety of Asphodelos before moving into DRK for Abyssos I can comfortably say that DRK is way more comfy when it comes to mits compared.

Whether you want to use TBN as early as possible for two procs or use it as late as possible to mitigate DOT to its entirety, TBN is just way too strong and useful to not use in any case. Compared to Bloodwhetting where the single target heal just can't save you through the ridiculous damage the DOT does by itself. Being able to apply TBN to other players also makes it amazingly useful for invuln cheesing since it also allows you to get procs off of your partner if they are invulning something like P7S condensed. TBN by itself can also break P5S TBs since it significantly reduces the damage the MT will be taking before you tankswap and mit the Toxic Crunch.

Dark Mind is just broken this tier. Damn near everything is magic damage so Dark Mind just makes DOTs or just straight TBs feel like wet noodles sometimes.

Dark Missionary is a significant reduction in raidwide damage, way more than what Shake it Off can pull. Especially since Shake it Off requires Thrill of Battle to be able to compare comfortably with other raidwide mits.

Oblation I can honestly go devil's advocate and say that Oblation feels really good for what it does. Oblation and TBN is an extremely powerful mitigation combo since it mits alongside with the shield TBN pulls. Not to mention Oblation can be given to other party members, which helps greatly with reducing the damage another party member will take with a different mechanic altogether. It's almost designed as such even with it being under 2 charges compared to other short cooldown mitigations.

[Rithy255]

Nascent Flash/Bloodwhetting are comically overrated. In a dungeon setting, the latter is an absolute monster. No doubt about it. Alas, in Savage, Heart of Corundum is simply better. Even TBN is comparable. At the end of the day, self-healing simply isn't as good as mitigation.

I think looking at both HOC and BW side by side shows BW is actually pretty similar in mitigation.

HOC = 15% + 15%
BW = 10% + 10% and a shield for around 7-10% of your HP
Both work out pretty strong, considering that the shield also has your mit stacked with it BW's actual mitigation is fairly decent despite what people have been saying, this shows they're actually not far off from each other on single target ignoring healing

This ontop of having the stronger healing effect (ignoring how flash is a outright better bw for a friend), I would consider BW The best personal even in single target, TBN also is the best depending on the situation as it's hard to compare TBN to other tanks personals.

[MrZalgo]

I think looking at both HOC and BW side by side shows BW is actually pretty similar in mitigation.

HOC = 15% + 15%
BW = 10% + 10% and a shield for around 7-10% of your HP
Both work out pretty strong, considering that the shield also has your mit stacked with it BW's actual mitigation is fairly decent despite what people have been saying, this shows they're actually not far off from each other on single target ignoring healing

This ontop of having the stronger healing effect (ignoring how flash is a outright better bw for a friend), I would consider BW The best personal even in single target, TBN also is the best depending on the situation as it's hard to compare TBN to other tanks personals.

TBN is an interesting case where by itself TBN can reduce a significant amount of damage a TB does, but because most of the TBs have DOTs attached to them, you want to use TBN rather aggressively. As mentioned above you can use it early to reduce the TB itself and force a proc, while also being able to use it again in the middle of the DOT to reduce 1-2 ticks to force a second proc. You could also use it in the middle of the DOT to force a safe proc and save it for the 3/5 burst you need to keep up for 2 minute raid buffs.

This makes it hard to compare defensive wise to BW or HOC since those short CDs can't mitigate the TB and DOT as well, but also have decent sustain to give healers some leeway. TBN + Oblation also gives more defense compared to the two cooldowns due to the additive defense on top of the shield.

Best way to compare in terms of playstyle: HOC and BW are best used reactively against TBs along with other mits, while TBN is a very proactive CD that really requires some planning on how you want to use it and manipulate whatever procs you get off it.