This video does an alright job at explaining why the Localization is so different

[Boblawblah]

So, can I ask, for those of you that aren't native English speakers, why does the English translation piss you off?

[Enkidoh]

So, can I ask, for those of you that aren't native English speakers, why does the English translation piss you off?

I can't speak for myself because I only speak English and so cannot understand Japanese, and so prefer the English language version by default, but reading the posts of others who dislike the English language version in the past, seems to either be beacuse there are a): often characterisation changes made to certain characters that players have become fond of, and it changes their perspective on them (the aforementioned Hauchefant incident is but one), b): some players who are bilingual/multilingual, just end up preferring a certain version for personal reasons, but then confuse subjectivity with objectivity. And c): some just like it because they're Japanese culture fantatics that just hate on everything Western/English/US, and see fit to attack/condemn the English language versions of everything as always inferior (aka 'cultural cringe').

Personally I think it's all rather petty, and before you pass judgement, I've had JP players who can understand speak/write English (members of my FC back on my old server Ridill, a JP server) talk about the storyline with me and are surprised when we mention things in the English version, that do not exist in the JP version, state the changes are actually better than what the JP version had, and that the English version is therefore the superior version.

Cultural cringe therefore clearly plays a very big part of this.

Also I'm a native English speaker so I guess that question wasn't really meant for me. I'm sorry about that.

[Boblawblah]

never apologize for a well put together post I might disagree with you in regards to the characterizations, imo Haurchefant as a more flamboyant lovable pervert just wouldn't work in the West (English speaking Western coutnries), so I think that's them trying to have the same emotional reaction/connect to a character/situation, and I think it works.

I'm just a bit surprised when non-native English speakers care so much about the English translation. If someone told me the French translation was awful, my reaction would be "oh, okay. Sucks for them", but it wouldn't affect my enjoyment at all.


edit: (added 'English speaking countries in the West') to be most clear

[RyuDragnier]

never apologize for a well put together post I might disagree with you in regards to the characterizations, imo Haurchefant as a more flamboyant lovable pervert just wouldn't work in the West, so I think that's them trying to have the same emotional reaction/connect to a character/situation, and I think it works.

Beyond wouldn't work in the west, people would actively dislike and be creeped out by him. Probably to the point where they'd cheer on his death, and wonder why the hell it was supposed to be sad. Localization is necessary at times, but you have people who refuse to accept that, and bash it for the sake of bashing it. Personally I take what we get because I can't read other languages well, and don't see the point in complaining outside of several questionable story beats which seem to be across all versions.

[SentioftheHoukai]

never apologize for a well put together post I might disagree with you in regards to the characterizations, imo Haurchefant as a more flamboyant lovable pervert just wouldn't work in the West (English speaking Western coutnries), so I think that's them trying to have the same emotional reaction/connect to a character/situation, and I think it works.

I'm just a bit surprised when non-native English speakers care so much about the English translation. If someone told me the French translation was awful, my reaction would be "oh, okay. Sucks for them", but it wouldn't affect my enjoyment at all.


edit: (added 'English speaking countries in the West') to be most clear

Beyond wouldn't work in the west, people would actively dislike and be creeped out by him. Probably to the point where they'd cheer on his death, and wonder why the hell it was supposed to be sad. Localization is necessary at times, but you have people who refuse to accept that, and bash it for the sake of bashing it. Personally I take what we get because I can't read other languages well, and don't see the point in complaining outside of several questionable story beats which seem to be across all versions.

I disagree, because

This guy exists
He basically IS JP Lord Horse Fart, and yet nobody seems to hate HIM or cheer on his nonexistent death
Nay, if anything the West would be positively tolerant of JP Horse Fart

[Boblawblah]

I'm not sure how you can argue that G'raha is perverted, the WoL is his hero, his everything, if you were so inclined to be dramatic. also "Horse Fart"? am I missing a meme or something here?

[Teraq]

So, can I ask, for those of you that aren't native English speakers, why does the English translation piss you off?

I can answer that, as I play with the client in French with Japanese voice overs (I tried switching to the English client once, but Ye Olde English and the way the text was even more different to what basic Japanese I could understand were really distracting and I couldn't stand it).

I often speak with people who have played the game in English, and when discussing specific lines, there are way too often instances of "what the hell are you talking about" on both sides. Then I go check into my screenshot folder, unearth the specific line by comparing character poses with the English screenshot provided by my friend, and go "wait… it's this line??". That happens a little too often for my tastes.

Often it's because of the English localisation being weirdly vague and flowery, choosing to go with epithets over bluntly saying things, which sometimes leads to people misinterpreting things and incorporating that into theories that are… well, just plain wrong. FR has much fewer flourishes than EN, the price to pay for sticking closer to the JP script which is usually very straightforward. I know that results in the English script often being more fun and having the most iconic lines, and that is cool I'll give it that, but its vagueness tends to intrude in discussions in a way I really don't care for.

One example I readily remember is of Emet's lines in Ultima Thule. I know someone playing in English who thought some of his comments were praising/referring to the WoL, while the French script makes it obvious Emet is in fact talking about Venat, whether it is by naming her, or thanks to French's much more gendered grammar and the fact that my WoL is male. Amusingly, how omnipresent gender is in French also means I had a "wait… why does everyone act like we don't know Venat is a woman??" moment from 5.2 to the release of 6.0. Apparently her gender wasn't clear in the English version of the Anamnesis recording. Due to how French works, her gender being mentioned in the Scions' lines was inevitable, but there is no reason why English couldn't simply add a mention of "that woman, Venat" or something to that effect.

Another one I can think of happens during the Zodiark trial ("The Dark Inside" VS "Le Cratère des Martyrs" – though given that Japanese trial titles are usually extremely blunt I'm going to guess the original was something to the effect of "Zodiark destruction operation", and that EN vs FR here is simply a matter of their respective localiser bias, which is interesting to see) is Fandaniel going "My life's work! My masterpiece!". In French, he is talking about how long he has waited for this day where he would finally destroy everything. Innocuous enough, yeah? But the thing about this fandom, and how… ugh… bizarrely incensed discussion can get around certain parts of lore, is that some people interpret the English line as evidence the concept of Zodiark was built by Fandaniel himself, and go off that about how essential Hermes was to the Convocation – and I'm not going to go down the Story of Endwalker Sucked rabbit hole because that would be off-topic, but it's just an example that came to mind.

Y'shtola, at some point in 6.0, saying "'Twas Hydaelyn who forestalled the Final Days" is also a "technically true" doozy that can be wildly misinterpreted, while FR has her saying, a lot more explicitly, "by keeping Zodiark alive, she forestalled the return of the Final Days he had originally prevented".

I mean, taken in isolation, all of these are innocuous. But personally, it's a recurring annoyance in my talks with friends, and I've seen it needlessly influence lore discourse when the arguments shouldn't even exist in the first place. Because whatever else English might be, it is the language most used internationally, and thus the EN localisation is the one with the most weight in everyday discussion.

[Deveryn]

In case it hasn't been mentioned, timing can be an issue with translation. As an example, those lengthy scenes in Praetorium will finish a lot faster in Japanese than they will in English. I switched over for the sake of hearing something different and I was ready to fight Gaius maybe 20 seconds ahead of everyone. Dialogue might have to be condensed or stretched to fit a time frame.

Y'shtola, at some point in 6.0, saying "'Twas Hydaelyn who forestalled the Final Days" is also a "technically true" doozy that can be wildly misinterpreted, while FR has her saying, a lot more explicitly, "by keeping Zodiark alive, she forestalled the return of the Final Days he had originally prevented".

You can clearly see the difference in timing.

[Boblawblah]

snip.

thanks for your well written response, I can start to see your point.

That said, maybe I'm a minority in the English speaking community, because I had no problems coming to the same conclusion as you did with only the English "translation". I have to say, these DO all seem innocuous to me. But, I don't really care about how other languages interpret it and honestly, if someone has a different take on a single line, I just don't care enough to be bothered. The story is the same. (all imo of course)

[SannaR]

thanks for your well written response, I can start to see your point.

That said, maybe I'm a minority in the English speaking community, because I had no problems coming to the same conclusion as you did with only the English "translation". I have to say, these DO all seem innocuous to me. But, I don't really care about how other languages interpret it and honestly, if someone has a different take on a single line, I just don't care enough to be bothered. The story is the same. (all imo of course)

I also must be in that small minority as I picked up on most of the things others have said they didn't until later in the story or after looking at how it's stated in a different language. For example a lot have said they didn't pick up on how the WoL must have been someone Emet knew or was close to until that 2nd talk with fake Hythlodaeus. Course maybe I just watched or read enough stuff where such subtle hints come off as someone whacking me upside the head with a brick. Or it comes from me struggling with bosses too many times in Ocarina of Time where anything that could be equated to Navi's "Hey!Listen!" point out that my brain automatically goes ohhh yeah.....