This video does an alright job at explaining why the Localization is so different

[Serilda]

I dislike the liberties taken with localization too. Having played FFXI (which also had a creative localization at times) on the Japanese client for years by choice, dealing with the arbitrary differences between the story and characterization in my version of the game and that of my friends was a constant headache; it even affected gameplay because figuring out which drops we each wanted in group/alliance events was needlessly confusing. Urianger's speech isn't clever or creative, it's full of repetitive, labored attempts to obfuscate the simplest of concepts by shoehorning faux-intellectual nonsense into simple sentences. Wading through the added fluff completely neuters any emotional impact of his lines. And a lot of the characterization suffers from rewriting too. When I play the MSQ alongside my friends we often come away with completely contrasting opinions of characters based on their lines in the same scenes. Not because they're written ambiguously, but because the localized versions say things with completely different nuance to the Japanese script.

And again, it's not just the story. If it was just that I'd switch to the Japanese client again and be perfectly happy, but I deliberately matched my language to my FC buddies this time around and it still makes communicating with other players in the game needlessly confusing. Why are spells renamed in stupid ways (Holy/Holyga becoming Holy/Holy3 instead of Holy/Holy2) in the name of 'consistency' which doesn't exist? Other localized FF games have used the non-numbered naming scheme just fine. Why are player titles arbitrarily changed so that wearing a title you think comes across one way might mean something different to people using FR/DE/JP clients? That's downright bizarre, especially because the titles which were changed in English often make less sense to English native speakers (the Green Eyes title being an example which had its original FF reference torn out in the name of localization - and it's not even a very good title; Dark Knight is a great title, whereas I'd never want to use the gibberish Dark Driver; using Slaughterhouse makes you The Dominator which has a completely different feel for something you're showing to every single person you meet). I understand that Japanese and English are different and that some sacrifices are necessary when a word/phrase has unintended connotations but the JP team still want to use it, but the localization team need to calm down and stop assuming that everyone playing stays in the same monolingual bubble as their friends. Some of us talk to other people using the other clients, as per the game's design, and the localization inaccuracies - because that's what they are - impact upon basic communication.

[Kazhar]

Getting a proper translation is a lost cause at this point. You have plenty of people ready to say "But you can't do a 1:1 translation!" despite the fact it has been done PLENTY of times in other IPs.

Or that the fact that they always ignore that the French and German in this game does it. Somehow, EN translation need to "adapted to western values" but not the other two. I've never seen any of the french players I know complain that the values felt dissonant with theirs or some nonsense like that. (and we complain about everything)

[Striker44]

What's important to consider is that the English version is not a "translation" or "localization" of the Japanese version. French and German do localizations of the Japanese version. The English version is created alongside the Japanese version and gets the approval of the Japanese team.

Personally, I love the English version, and have always been satisfied throughout the time MC Koji-Fox was in charge of it. It's humorous, it's serious when it needs to be, and it tells a solid story. In all seriousness, just sit back and enjoy the game. Some people I think get frustrated because they are taking a form of entertainment way too seriously.

[jameseoakes]

What's important to consider is that the English version is not a "translation" or "localization" of the Japanese version. French and German do localizations of the Japanese version. The English version is created alongside the Japanese version and gets the approval of the Japanese team.

Personally, I love the English version, and have always been satisfied throughout the time MC Koji-Fox was in charge of it. It's humorous, it's serious when it needs to be, and it tells a solid story. In all seriousness, just sit back and enjoy the game. Some people I think get frustrated because they are taking a form of entertainment way too seriously.

Is that still the case, that was what was going on with Koji he was part of the development team but he seems to have gone completely to 16 leaving the English team to be in much the same way as the French and German teams just one who want to tell a different story

[Boblawblah]

All the proof of why the English translation is bad always includes "nuance", yes, that's the point of localization, cultures are different, and so a nuanced approach is necessary.

I love the English version, it's amazing really, I haven't seen a single line that I thought "Oh, that's definitely just directly ripped from the Japanese" which is saying something, so many Japanese games do almost a direct 1 to 1 translation and it's super awkward and stilted. If that's because the English localization is developed alongside the Japanese, then keep doing what you're doing. It's wonderful

[Kazhar]

What's important to consider is that the English version is not a "translation" or "localization" of the Japanese version. French and German do localizations of the Japanese version. The English version is created alongside the Japanese version and gets the approval of the Japanese team.

I know your post is a very popular claim in the ffxiv community but as far as we know, this is incorrect.
Discussed here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...f14s_japanese/

EDIT: I should add that the entire thread and interviews linked there are worth reading, not just the top post which kinda summarises the situation poorly.

[Lauront]

I know your post is a very popular claim in the ffxiv community but as far as we know, this is incorrect.
Discussed here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...f14s_japanese/

EDIT: I should add that the entire thread and interviews linked there are worth reading, not just the top post which kinda summarises the situation poorly.

And specifically, this comment picks out the relevant parts.

They had a couple more pieces here and here worth reading, particularly the bit re "wiggle" room. There was an older thread on it here for those interested.

[Enkidoh]

Ferne (Michael-Christopher Koji Fox) has been part of the localization/lore writing of the game since 1.0 (he even appears briefly in the 'Making Of' video included with the collector's edition of FFXIV 1.0, although doesn't speak in it or offers any insights sadly) - many of the fundamental story aspects of the game are actually his work, such as the secondary name of the Twelveswood (the Black Shroud), Nald'thal being a twin god with a combined name (just so he could make the "Thal's Balls" joke/cuss, famously admitting "he just loves to swear"), and other things. So it's not like he was suddennly dropped into the project and "changed things" from the "original", the "original" has always had a connection to him.

Really this whole pointless arguement about localization just came about because how at the end of 2.55 Midgardsormr's more maternal aspects got lost in translation (figure of speech) and thus resulted in him becoming more like something of a surly bully, and famously how Hauchy's more perverted, even creepy, nature was understandably toned down for Western sensibilities (something Ferne could hardly be faulted for - such things tend to result in higher classifications in some countries).

And now with EW's more controversial story and a certain... character... it's revived the whole "the localization of FFXIV sucks!" arguement for another run around the block. As has been stated, the Japanese version and the English version draw from and influence each other's narrative, the Japanese version is not the "base" version that the English version is merely a pedestrian translation from, the two work hand in glove in writing, which does mean, yes, some minor differences show up, but fundamentally the same story is told.

Also Ferne is still part of the FFXIV team because FFXVI's development is also being handled by it, meaning he's been seconded to FFXVI's localization, so he'll return once XVI is released. And he still did have a very minor part in EW's development - he's the vocalist for the Pandaemonium vocal tracks Hic Svnt Leones and White Stone Black.

[Midareyukki]

So the "localizers" think that NA is too immature and needs "liberties" thrown into the story to make it more palatable for what the NA team thinks the NA audience can handle? If you frame it like that then the NA localizers must think the NA playerbase can't handle the story without softening it and making pop culture jokes. That worrying at best and insulting at worst, lmao.

Honestly? I REALLY wouldn't put it past them if the texts that we end up with are dumbed down and have nuance altered to cater to the reader.

Japanese is a context-heavy language, and English isn't as much, it's a lot more straightforward with minute cultural aspects changing the meaning of things.
But it is still possible to have a proper conversion into English, one just needs to clarify the text so audience can understand. Sometimes it doesn't work, but in translation there really is so much you can do.

Text in FF14 has been re-written, though. And scenes have had their emotional tone redefined. I'm not saying that DE or FR translations won't have moments that don't fully correspond to the original JP text. But neither of them are as noticeable as EN is. You still get the same meaning

And if the text does simplify scenes so the meaning is clearer, then you have to gauge what the team thinks based on occurrence. If it doesn't happen that often, then it's because it was likely tricky to translate from Japanese. If it happens often, then you have several reasons:
- Editor/Publisher's choice
- The team realized it was too nuanced and culturally heavy
- They're involved in making the product

Which they are, because:

Ferne (Michael-Christopher Koji Fox) has been part of the localization/lore writing of the game since 1.0 (he even appears briefly in the 'Making Of' video included with the collector's edition of FFXIV 1.0, although doesn't speak in it or offers any insights sadly) - many of the fundamental story aspects of the game are actually his work

The lead of the English localization team is directly involved in the creative writing aspect. He's in charge of making lore. Whether he used to be a grunt who rose to prominence doesn't exactly matter, because as it stands, he does have a hand in how things are written. And thus he can make "his own" version of the text.

I realize now that saying that "it's his version" is a bit misleading, because I don't know how the dev team really feels about the whole thing, nor do I know if it's only him doing it and bossing others around. It very likely isn't.
But the liberty IS there. And we see the consequences of it on the text.

[Raoabolic]

Honestly? I REALLY wouldn't put it past them if the texts that we end up with are dumbed down and have nuance altered to cater to the reader.

Japanese is a context-heavy language, and English isn't as much, it's a lot more straightforward with minute cultural aspects changing the meaning of things.
But it is still possible to have a proper conversion into English, one just needs to clarify the text so audience can understand. Sometimes it doesn't work, but in translation there really is so much you can do.

Text in FF14 has been re-written, though. And scenes have had their emotional tone redefined. I'm not saying that DE or FR translations won't have moments that don't fully correspond to the original JP text. But neither of them are as noticeable as EN is. You still get the same meaning

And if the text does simplify scenes so the meaning is clearer, then you have to gauge what the team thinks based on occurrence. If it doesn't happen that often, then it's because it was likely tricky to translate from Japanese. If it happens often, then you have several reasons:
- Editor/Publisher's choice
- The team realized it was too nuanced and culturally heavy
- They're involved in making the product

Which they are, because:


The lead of the English localization team is directly involved in the creative writing aspect. He's in charge of making lore. Whether he used to be a grunt who rose to prominence doesn't exactly matter, because as it stands, he does have a hand in how things are written. And thus he can make "his own" version of the text.

I realize now that saying that "it's his version" is a bit misleading, because I don't know how the dev team really feels about the whole thing, nor do I know if it's only him doing it and bossing others around. It very likely isn't.
But the liberty IS there. And we see the consequences of it on the text.

You are absolutely right, which is why I don't care to argue about this since the damage has been done. We can go forward and back all day discussing why or why not liberties should or should not be taken when translating and what defines the difference between translating a work vs localizing a work but this song and dance has been done to death for nearly a decade. Why strain yourselves? The writer isn't going to go to the NA's GD board, read this thread and go, "Oh no! I need to fix this!". Just enjoy it for what it is and leave when it's no longer worth your time, lol.