RDM underperforming by the way of neglect

[Keiisuke]

Stop trying to promote removing class identity just because you want to do melee dps like damage as a rdm lol...

To be fair it was the case not too long ago (5.5 for example), RDM was performing even better than melee jobs in some encounters. imo melee jobs are too strong rn, they need to show more love to casters and some physical range DPS.

[Ghost_of_Ebina]

For me RDM having rez skills is not all that important from savage content perspective, because in such cases anybody dying = total failure and an RDM wasting their firepower on rez actions means lower overall DPS.
Thus, the argument that RDM has lower DPS due to their rez capability doesn't really fly.

I also think the fact that RDMs are forced to be in melee range during their combo attacks is severe weakness compared to other caster jobs.
It also limits the mobility options due to how we need to be in the proximity of the enemy until we are done with the combo.
The combos are also not all that fast -- it feels like we are slinging a huge noodle or something. Can't we speed up the combo considering we are using super-light rapiers as weapons?

Combining the rapier combo buttons into one would also be helpful. Plenty of other jobs already have this.
Currently the rapier combos take up separate buttons, and I end up pressing the same button twice in some cases which is always sad... and would be really great to just be able to hit the same button 3 times.

[FireMage]

I did, which is how I saw many others think caster balance is fine like me lol... while the arguments against basically boiled down to people hating on Veraise crying it's not optimal for Savage speed clear. I you don't want Veraise and want a bit more dps just go player SMN instead. The WHOLE POINT of RDM is being able to chain res and offer support (shield+damage+heal), while doing decent damage IN ANY CONTENT, not just world first savage raiding. You might be playing the wrong job if you think otherwise.

What you think is irrelevant to what is. RDM is far harder than SMN, has the worst mobility of the casters, has only Barrier for actual utility; caster balance is screwed for it to not be higher than SMN (why am I repeating myself?). And no, that is not the point of RDM, it is a DPS, that is its role. You might be playing the wrong Job if you think otherwise

[SaberMaxwell]

I did, which is how I saw many others think caster balance is fine like me lol... while the arguments against basically boiled down to people hating on Veraise crying it's not optimal for Savage speed clear. I you don't want Veraise and want a bit more dps just go player SMN instead. The WHOLE POINT of RDM is being able to chain res and offer support (shield+damage+heal), while doing decent damage IN ANY CONTENT, not just world first savage raiding. You might be playing the wrong job if you think otherwise.

I'll just quote one of the many actually sane opinions from literally page 1 this thread:

"Underperforming by what margin? Because it seems to me that quite a lot of bad job design choices are made just to sate the egos of Parsers. Like tanks being homogenized beyond belief, TA/Mug, Ast Card rng, Kaiten removal, leans into auto-crits etc. I guess what I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. I'm well aware red mage isnt the hardest hitting caster but it's very fun to play, has a nice flow, does a bit of everything. One of the few jobs in xiv that matches its original job identity (jack of all trades), and doesnt have a single piece of jank in its kit. Plus one of the few jobs that actually has carry potential due to machine gun rezzes. I find it odd that you describe it as a turret job when you spend even more time moving around in EW than you did in SHB. Acceleration procs, dual cast, swiftcast are more than enough. Hold a charge when you know you have to move for mechanics and that problem is sorted. If anything I'd say summoner is the caster that needs the most help rn. Boring asf, no room to optimise, plays like a lv50 job etc." (Lustre)

Stop trying to promote removing class identity just because you want to do melee dps like damage as a rdm lol... rdm right now is 10x better than what is was in ShB. Stop looking at damage only. You don't play rdm to be nr 1 or 2 on dps charts. Red Mage in Final Fantasy is a jack of all trades kind of job, master of none.

Personally, for the future, I want an low to medium AOE Heal, A dual stance mechanic (like PvP) in PvE that augments certain abilities depending on stance, and an extra bar or job mechanic to super enchant melee attacks or boost black/white mana generation temporarily. WAY more fun and representative of what RDM is about imo, than just... uh.... "lets remove veraise for more damage"....

Sounds like you really wish RDM was in the healer role.

[remiff]

Personally I think that adding too much healing/regen effect on a DPS role is a design error, vercure is really useful for prog/downtime or casual content,
only for instant cast, but not particularly useful outside of theses situations there, so adding a medica effect when it is the role of healers who can already fully healing a group in 2-3s, is not appropriate for a DPS job,
like the arcane crest of the reaper which is more useful as a personal defense, or the summoner overlasting flight.

I really hope that squareenix completely removes this kind of healing effects on a DPS, a mitigation/shield is much more effective, or at the limit an instant personal heal like second wind in role action.

[darcstar62]

For me RDM having rez skills is not all that important from savage content perspective, ...

Emphasis mine

This statement is why we are getting nowhere ITT - there are two different camps here. People that are running savage now are unhappy with RDM because it's not useful for early prog or for farming. For early prog, the raises aren't useful because deaths will prevent you from making the dps check. For farming, you don't need it because everyone should have the fight down and the rare deaths can be handled by a healer or SMN. The only place RDM excels in Savage is for late clearing groups (and maybe early prog just to try and see more of the fight), where their gear gives them enough cushion to survive the dps checks even if they have rez sickness.

The other group is people that play RDM for non-savage content, including EX's, particularly in PF. These fights also don't have big dps checks (and often don't even have enrages) so dying over and over isn't an issue, so the RDM's chain rez ability is great because it can save fights when people mess up or are just bad (particularly when your healers are dying over and over).

For group 1, RDM in its current form doesn't bring enough to the table, while for group 2, it's perfectly fine. I don't see any way to make both groups happy without adding some kind of new mechanic like "Rez Stance" (similar to the old cleric stance) where raising is only allowed in that stance but it penalizes your dps. (FWIW, I'm not being serious about adding this, I'm just trying to make a point that having a single job that satisfies both needs is going to be difficult.)

[Kalaam]

I don't see any way to make both groups happy without adding some kind of new mechanic like "Rez Stance" (similar to the old cleric stance) where raising is only allowed in that stance but it penalizes your dps. (FWIW, I'm not being serious about adding this, I'm just trying to make a point that having a single job that satisfies both needs is going to be difficult.)

And so the monkey's paw started curling...

[RylaBee]

DPS wise, as a job with mobility limitations and support ability, RDM is midfielder.

Current screw-up is, that the midfield is EMPTY.

It is THAT gap between DNC/BRD and lowest melee, where support casters and selfish phys-ranged are supposed to live, but at the moment, nothing lives there.
Once that is fixed, we can have lazy debates, what should be the exact order of support casters and MCH, but it wouldn't really be of great import.

PS: someone suggested there, that DNC is somehow too high.
No. DNC is perfectly placed. It is - yet again- that too wide gap between it and melee, that is wrong.

[jdgev]

Sounds like you really wish RDM was in the healer role.

I don't play healers so no, but I want to be able to support properly and do everything a bit, which is how Red Mage works... I also rather have players that know 0 about the job fantasy to stop trying to streamline it removing key abilities and making it a "everything I do is for my dps" job because they dream of their dps charts every night in bed. All they have to do is to push 1 macro button to switch to another job that can do more dps so they can feel better.

This thread was made to complain about RDM damage. The problem isn't RDM damage, it's caster damage. All casters need to be buffed. It has nothing to do with RDM being underpowered in itself.

[jdgev]

What you think is irrelevant to what is. RDM is far harder than SMN, has the worst mobility of the casters, has only Barrier for actual utility; caster balance is screwed for it to not be higher than SMN (why am I repeating myself?). And no, that is not the point of RDM, it is a DPS, that is its role. You might be playing the wrong Job if you think otherwise

I don't understand what kind of self-respecting RDM wouldn't consider Embolden+Verraise+Vercure utility, but you are certainly living the dream huh. Oh, I guess according to you... Dancers and Bards aren't support either guys, they are just DPS! And healers are just glorified 1 button dps right? ... dude. Support jobs EXIST and they are within the dps role. Paladin is also a support focused tank (although badly implemented). It's not hard to understand. You are playing a job with strong support hating on it's support, and wishing it had the damage to compete with melees. That won't happen. Red Mage is an ALL AROUND DPS, so stop trying to discredit it's support which is a major part of it's gameplay.

Also, you are literally the only one here saying RDM should be higher than SMN in damage lol... that makes 0 sense. What they need is to fix the horrible job that is SMN right now.

Thank god RDM is at least a job Square Enix seems to understand well and has improved upon every expansion. They just need to buff all caster dps and we good.

EDIT: Please go look at RDM in the other FF games before anyone claims they should remove support abilities... it's not hard.... just type "Red Mage in ff games" or something in google and voila.