RDM underperforming by the way of neglect

[RylaBee]

Since start of the expansion, RDM is one of the few jobs which have fun and engaging gameplay which gets no complaints from players.
It is also one of two "turret" jobs of the game, spending rooted in place as much, if not more time than BLM that was traditionally so. It also lacks personal protection, mobility tools and is forced to melee by important part of its rotation and abilities.

Since design is solid, SE almost didn't touch the job since expansion.
By the way of gameplay, this is GOOD.

However, SE has made numerous "fixes" to almost all other jobs, often by the lazy way of potency boosts.

As a result, RDM has been steadily sliding into where it is now: the worst DPS job in game - even if by far not the easiest to play.
This is especially visible in current hectic / movement heavy encounters such as Barbariccia or new Savages.

To put it simply - RMD needs its potencies adjusted to reclaim its place, or it will face the Stormblood FATE: it will be perceived just as prog REZZ mage.

[Garten]

Red mage Is my main since they destroied AST rng cards. I love almost everything about It.. It Is almost so perfect to me (its aestetichs, moves, its Hybrid nature, its utena vibes..) that i am TERRIFIED of SE touching It..
I also am worried of what they would do next expansion..

If we talk only about DMG i am not an hardcore player but i hear Always here about the ress tax.. that if they up Red dmg then everyone would take Red over black ti raid etc ...
I dunno.. Just dont touch verraise and vercure, t_t

[Hasrat]

RDM... a turret? That needs mobility tools?

We are talking about Red Mage, right? The job with both a dash-in and a disengage (two charges, each, even)? The job with a melee combo, with no positionals, capped with two instant-cast finishers? The same job with Dualcast, meaning they only ever have to stand still for 50% (or less) of their rotation?

That RDM is somehow spending more time rooted in place than a BLM, whose Ley Lines require they stay in position to get any benefit?

[RylaBee]

Apparently you have not been keeping tabs on RDM play for some time.

the dash-in is obligatory part of rotation, so is the melee combo, and bad news if you have need to start it/or started it and can't go melee
the disengage is used basically never, since it will most often kill you in Savage (ask Dragoons)
the movement tools of BLM, both jump-to-player and return to Ley Lines are wastly better mobility tools for Savage
BLM can also choose when to get most of its ista-casts, while RDM can much less so

So yes, we are talking that Red Mage

[Supersnow845]

RDM... a turret? That needs mobility tools?

We are talking about Red Mage, right? The job with both a dash-in and a disengage (two charges, each, even)? The job with a melee combo, with no positionals, capped with two instant-cast finishers? The same job with Dualcast, meaning they only ever have to stand still for 50% (or less) of their rotation?

That RDM is somehow spending more time rooted in place than a BLM, whose Ley Lines require they stay in position to get any benefit?

RDM actually does handle long bursts of movement far worse than BLM though especially outside of melee range. If you have to be outside of melee range RDM has functionally nothing for movement, if you are in melee range you can’t guarantee the movement will fall under a melee combo unless you force the off combo into that window (and generally if it’s a movement mechanic the melees and tanks need the melee spot)

BLM is rooted during leylines but otherwise can stack many movement tools (triple cast, sharp cast, ice paradox, swift cast etc) to get 5-8 GCD’s of constant movement at any distance from the boss

I don’t think any of the magical DPS need more movement options (about the only class that needs movement options right now is SCH) but saying RDM is more turrety and BLM is not totally untrue

[SaberMaxwell]

RDM actually does handle long bursts of movement far worse than BLM though especially outside of melee range. If you have to be outside of melee range RDM has functionally nothing for movement, if you are in melee range you can’t guarantee the movement will fall under a melee combo unless you force the off combo into that window (and generally if it’s a movement mechanic the melees and tanks need the melee spot)

BLM is rooted during leylines but otherwise can stack many movement tools (triple cast, sharp cast, ice paradox, swift cast etc) to get 5-8 GCD’s of constant movement at any distance from the boss

I don’t think any of the magical DPS need more movement options (about the only class that needs movement options right now is SCH) but saying RDM is more turrety and BLM is not totally untrue

Couldn't have put it better myself. There's a very real possibility that at any one moment, RDM might be the least mobile DPS caster in the game simply due to the above-outlined explanations. As a general rule, RDM's movement tools are easy to use--even the trick where you cast acceleration and bank it behind a dualcast for some extra/delayed movement--but BLM's tools are more useful and in-depth. In a savage setting assuming both know their tools, a BLM is able to move when it counts, in simpler terms.

That being said, I don't want more movement tools on RDM. I like things the way they are because 80% of the fun of the fight for me is plotting when I can bum that melee combo for movement, if there's a way to squeeze in to the melee pile while moving through weird mechanics, where I need accel/swift, if I need swift in the next minute or if I can just slap it in for a potency gain, etc. SMN needs that casting gameplay back too, not just to make it equal with the other casters but to also give it that sense of being a caster back.

If you look at the Proto-Carbuncle DPS rankings, RDM is coming in at rock bottom. Below the bard, dancer, and machinist, with Summoner likewise coming under Machinist. It's been hovering in the number 2 spot for worst next to MCH since Asphodelos Savage. I'm no math wizard, I just hit the RDM spell buttons goodly, but I don't think RDM should necessarily be that low on the totem pole.

[Lustre]

Underperforming by what margin? Because it seems to me that quite a lot of bad job design choices are made just to sate the egos of Parsers. Like tanks being homogenized beyond belief, TA/Mug, Ast Card rng, Kaiten removal, leans into auto-crits etc. I guess what I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. I'm well aware red mage isnt the hardest hitting caster but it's very fun to play, has a nice flow, does a bit of everything. One of the few jobs in xiv that matches its original job identity (jack of all trades), and doesnt have a single piece of jank in its kit. Plus one of the few jobs that actually has carry potential due to machine gun rezzes. I find it odd that you describe it as a turret job when you spend even more time moving around in EW than you did in SHB. Acceleration procs, dual cast, swiftcast are more than enough. Hold a charge when you know you have to move for mechanics and that problem is sorted. If anything I'd say summoner is the caster that needs the most help rn. Boring asf, no room to optimise, plays like a lv50 job etc.

[RylaBee]

it seems to me that quite a lot of bad job design choices are made just to sate the egos of Parsers.

Yes, that is why I said design does not need any touching (so its not screwed). Only the numbers and they speak for themselves.

[Flashy]

Underperforming by what margin? Because it seems to me that quite a lot of bad job design choices are made just to sate the egos of Parsers. Like tanks being homogenized beyond belief, TA/Mug, Ast Card rng, Kaiten removal, leans into auto-crits etc. I guess what I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. I'm well aware red mage isnt the hardest hitting caster but it's very fun to play, has a nice flow, does a bit of everything. One of the few jobs in xiv that matches its original job identity (jack of all trades), and doesnt have a single piece of jank in its kit. Plus one of the few jobs that actually has carry potential due to machine gun rezzes. I find it odd that you describe it as a turret job when you spend even more time moving around in EW than you did in SHB. Acceleration procs, dual cast, swiftcast are more than enough. Hold a charge when you know you have to move for mechanics and that problem is sorted. If anything I'd say summoner is the caster that needs the most help rn. Boring asf, no room to optimise, plays like a lv50 job etc.

How does removing gameplay from jobs sate the parsers? If anything. It does the opposite, dumbing down samurai in 6.1 to a somehow more dumbed down state than it was in 6.0turned me off from wanting to parse the job I love because it was no longer satisfying to play

[Lustre]

Yes, that is why I said design does not need any touching (so its not screwed). Only the numbers and they speak for themselves.

Ok so what's the margin? What's the difference in damage % between the casters?