RDM underperforming by the way of neglect

[FireMage]

Have you seen the statistics on recent raids, the difference in DPS between the red mage and the summoner is derisory on the overall RDPS, see in some fights the red mage is slightly above between 75% and 100%, if statics expel red mages for such a small difference, it's that they are bad and they haven't understood the real utility of the red mage who is able to rez several players, and especially to reduce damage with magic barrier, if the red mage would have more DPS than the summoner, it wouldn't make sense given how much more efficient the red mage's kit is.

Psst the rez when needing to kill doesn't really matter. Also RDM should have more damage than SMN with it's near constant access of mobility and non pulse requiring rotation

[remiff]

Psst the rez when needing to kill doesn't really matter. Also RDM should have more damage than SMN with it's near constant access of mobility and non pulse requiring rotation

Overall the summoner's kit is about his personal survival, the red mage a lot of mobility on his rotation too, the summoner certainly only has 3-4 cast per minute which is not much and makes him almost as mobile as Phys range, and is very easy to play certainly, but the red mage has a better kit for the survival of the group, to put the summoner under the red mage would make it totally obsolete.

red mage and summoner have almost the same DPS,
and all compositions are able to kill a boss, some comps are just easier than others, especially since you get 900 tomestones during this raid without having adjustments on the bosses HP.

[FireMage]

Overall the summoner's kit is about his personal survival, the red mage a lot of mobility on his rotation too, the summoner certainly only has 3-4 cast per minute which is not much and makes him almost as mobile as Phys range, and is very easy to play certainly, but the red mage has a better kit for the survival of the group, to put the summoner under the red mage would make it totally obsolete.

Hey, if SMN wants damage then it should earn it. Because currently good balance isn't a thing. Summoner currently should be "obsolete" and for those types of people that won't push buttons

[remiff]

Hey, if SMN wants damage then it should earn it. Because currently good balance isn't a thing. Summoner currently should be "obsolete" and for those types of people that won't push buttons

So much unnecessary hate on the summoner, so ask the devs to fix it instead of saying ''easy jobs'' should be ''obsolete''.

[FireMage]

So much unnecessary hate on the summoner, so ask the devs to fix it instead of saying ''easy jobs'' should be ''obsolete''.

It was fixed back in ShB, when it actually earned its placement. Good game balance demands that ease should be penalized with a lower placement. I don't make the rules

[remiff]

It was fixed back in ShB, when it actually earned its placement. Good game balance demands that ease should be penalized with a lower placement. I don't make the rules

They make a lot of jobs easier, especially during rework, look at the machinist, the summoner or even some adjustments that have been made to the heal/tanks since Haevensward, if the devs create so-called easy jobs it is precisely to propose roles more accessible to players and it is not on this so-called ease that they balance the game, otherwise it would create a trash balance,
they also compare the contributions between the jobs and not necessarily the skill ceilling.

[Flana]

It was fixed back in ShB, when it actually earned its placement. Good game balance demands that ease should be penalized with a lower placement. I don't make the rules

Calling the dumpster fire of Summoner 'fixed' is stretching the meaning of the word to nonsense. It's been broken since Stormblood introduced the god awful demi-summon mechanic, SE just buffed the damage to absurd numbers to keep people from complaining.

[FireMage]

They make a lot of jobs easier, especially during rework, look at the machinist, the summoner or even some adjustments that have been made to the heal/tanks since Haevensward, if the devs create so-called easy jobs it is precisely to propose roles more accessible to players and it is not on this so-called ease that they balance the game, otherwise it would create a trash balance,
they also compare the contributions between the jobs and not necessarily the skill ceilling.

No, trash balance is what we have now. Where RDM which is harder than all the phys ranged, SMN, and RPR to play and optimize is either lower or even with. That is trash balance

[FireMage]

Calling the dumpster fire of Summoner 'fixed' is stretching the meaning of the word to nonsense. It's been broken since Stormblood introduced the god awful demi-summon mechanic, SE just buffed the damage to absurd numbers to keep people from complaining.

It was roughly where it should have been. All they needed was to fix Bahamut and Phoenix. The 6.0 changes killed any interest in SMN for high end players

[Mithron]

It was fixed back in ShB, when it actually earned its placement. Good game balance demands that ease should be penalized with a lower placement. I don't make the rules

I actually disagree with this entirely. The only thing that good game balance demand should be how much support it brings. Ease of play should have no bearing in DPS. Though I do not disagree SMN should be more complex than it currently is in EW.