Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent. 2.0

[Rilifane]

Agreed. They were also on the last boss. I highly doubt that the RDM could have been the sole cause of the wipes. There were other weaknesses in that group.

Most people just don't own up to, that's all.
Always reminds me of students that forgot their homework and just look down and pretend to be not there so the teacher doesn't notice them and are all too happy when the teacher caught someone else and is busy with them. People make mistakes all the time and that's fine but it's rare to see someone say "whups sorry, shouldn't have greeded so hard/ used my mitigation earlier/ healed sooner".

[Merrigan]

Most people just don't own up to, that's all.
Always reminds me of students that forgot their homework and just look down and pretend to be not there so the teacher doesn't notice them and are all too happy when the teacher caught someone else and is busy with them. People make mistakes all the time and that's fine but it's rare to see someone say "whups sorry, shouldn't have greeded so hard/ used my mitigation earlier/ healed sooner".

It is so tiring in the long run... I tend to apologize when I make a mistake; but as soon as we get into a more demanding content, it ends up in the exact situation you describe:

- Three players make a mistake; only one apologizes.
- The one who apologizes attracts the wrath of the group's nervousness
- He is held as the main culprit by everyone, if only because his name was posted more often in the chat.
- The other culprits wallow in a comfortable, but unconstructive silence.

[Liam_Harper]

So if someone was in there with minimum ilevel gear, I can absolutely believe an overlapped spread marker would just turn them into paste on the floor, whether or not they were healed to full.

I like to drop them on friends with Icarus when we're messing around and I can confirm 2 spread markers usually won't kill an undergeared player in dungeons. Individually they tickle.

[Rilifane]

I like to drop them on friends with Icarus when we're messing around and I can confirm 2 spread markers usually won't kill an undergeared player in dungeons. Individually they tickle.

"Kill for friend"

[Carin-Eri]

I've seen you come by here a few times, posting some pretty harsh messages about your own performance. I've never played with you, so I don't know how much of it is due to sheer exaggeration (listening to you, you're an extra mechanic all by yourself! )

That being said, two things:

- I can only speak from my own perspective, but I would never want a player who is doing their best to leave the group. Kicking and leaving is, for me, reserved for people who are really unpleasant and AFK people. And... I think many agree with me. We'll bitch sometimes behind our screen, but without particularly wanting you to leave, and without real venom. So don't give up your place so easily: explain, apologize if you feel it's necessary, but continue.

- Beware of self-flagellation. Another forumer has already elaborated before me, but if you have difficulties to manage the mechanics, then you are also part of those who don't have a global vision of the group... And of the origin of the damage that everyone takes. Being aware of your own shortcomings is one thing; taking responsibility for all the mistakes (when you have no idea) is another.

- One way to improve is to learn to prioritize mechanics. What are the ones that you must not take / miss at all costs? If you have to stop dps during this one, then stop dps, consolidate your understanding of those specific mechanics, and make sure you do them correctly.
For the others (the ones that do damage, but don't inflict OS): healers are there for that too. Dungeon content is usually a bit boring for a healer.... And honestly I like it when a player makes a mistake or two, it keeps me from falling asleep.

Am harsh about my performance true, but that's beause I don't seem able to adapt to/learn mechancs and keep making stupid mistakes.

I guess it wasn't entirely on me - I just felt that I wasn't really pulling my weight, and it felt as if Scarmiglione's HP was almost static. I also felt like a letdown as the healer dropped at one point and I was KO'ed due to making an attempt to Verraise the healer (I stopped, used Swiftcast, as was about to cast Verraise but was KO'ed before I could).

I guess I'd also have to concede that, as noted, I was playing as Red Mage and haven't done so for some time as I'd chosen to return to my favorite job (Bard) as very much wanted to improve my performance on that job. And actually don't think I'm too terribad as a Bard following tons of practice and reading the rotation guide on 'The Balance'. And for what it's worth, from the experience I have playing 'Fell Court of Troia' thus far, I guess I do die rather a lot less Vs Scarmiglione as a Bard.

Anyway - thank you for the encouragement!

If I have learned one thing in DF, and also PF, it's that it's never just one person's fault and that if you hope for objections when you apologize and offer to leave you will get none.
The majority of people have absolutely no idea what's going on around them and even if something was their fault, they'll just reply with a generic "happens/ no worries/ it's okay" if someone else apologizes. I did it so many times when I was either unsure whether it was really my fault alone or when it was partly my fault but someone else's mistake played a role and I got pretty much always a generic form of "I forgive you" without them chiming in about their own mistake.

And as for the last boss in Troia: there is not a single mechanic where one player can wipe the party. None.
You get puddles and even if two people stack, they get both 2 stacks and zombie status is at 3. So unless the other person already ate something (=their mistake), they can't get zombie'd by you.
You will always have at least one wall to get knocked against unless everyone nuked a wall which would require the tank to deliberale ignore melee range and stand far outside.
The stack during add phase can easily be taken by 3 people, 2 if you push it and have some mitigation on the squishy.
For spread markers even squishies can survive two hits at once so unless you had 3 people (= someone else's mistake too) stacking with spread markers, it can't wipe you either.

Everything else can simply be healed through or worst case, one person dies and gets rezzed and you continue.
So no, it's simply impossible that you alone wiped the party twice.
You may have made mistakes but someone else also had to made mistake and/ or the healer and/ or tank reacted poorly to what was happening too. Because the dot from getting knocked into the wall can be healed, spread markers stacking can be healed, stack with less than 4 can be healed, healer can rezz you. And all 4 tanks have ways to protect/ heal a squishy if something goes wrong. It may not have been their mistake in the first place but it's still poor reaction to let things cause a wipe that can be salvaged.

Thanks for the advice!

[Vahlnir]

My patience with the DF has been getting lower and lower over the years, I've now started quitting when I see wipes on stupid mechanics as I'm running the worthless roulettes (i.e. trials and normals raids).
It's so tiring to see the umpteenth burger king tank pointing tankbusters at the party killing four people

No one's perfect, but some tanks are better/worse than others in general. I don't really have a lot of room to talk here. One time I was tanking Diabolos in Dun Scaith and accidentally cleaved the entire raid, killing everyone. Didn't happen again though! lol I learned a hard lesson that day.

[VictorSpoils]

I just had this weird experience in expert roulette today, it was the newest dungeon.
Tank started with this odd explanation of the final boss, at least that's what i think it's supposed to be, and then proceeded with single pulls.
I ask them to do big pulls and at the third pack i used rescue to push them in doing so, tank runs back, but they ended up losing aggro on some enemies which went after the dps.
I tried to keep them alive, but the dps decided to run all the way back to the beginning of the dungeon, so they ended up dying.
At this point i was thinking about leaving, the tank stood still and was wondering how this had happened.

After we regrouped both dps suddenly decided to just go ahead and pull the next pack alone, while the tank was still just standing, i didn't ran with them, so they died.

We were over 5 minutes in this dungeon at this point so i decided to try to kick the tank because there were just standing there and writing the entire time, i didn't believe it would work because it is obvious that this is a premade group but guess what.... it did.
After the tank got kicked, the other 2 dps left with them. The new group had no problems at all to do the dungeon normally.

I know i was acting rude and i do feel bad, but this isn't a super hard dungeon, it's the same as any other, so i thought it was weird that they were making such a huge deal out of it.

Here is the chat when this happened, I played white mage, blue was dark knight, orange was bard and red was summoner.
I checked after the dungeon and all three of them were in the same FC, tank and one of the dps had the same last name.

Looks like you ran into Pierre, Guillaume, and Jean-Phillipe.

[NekoMataMata]

Someone, somewhere once said "it's always Vanaspati." They were right, it really always is.

Not gonna complain about the DNC because they're new and they can have a pass for that. That GNB though... Couldn't manage aggro on the first two pulls. Me and another DPS are dragging half the pull to them in an attempt to get him to take aggro of it but for some reason he's using a single target combo? They're also one of those tanks that pulls with Provoke but even if they were aware, they did nothing. I healed off 3 people for those pulls because he just wouldn't take aggro what-so-ever.

They figured things out after the first boss, somehow, but even then, they're still not using half their mitis(using certain unearthly tools that YoshiP forbids I can tell you that Heart of Corundum had an up time of 80%). Probably gonna make someone angry here, but unless you're a DRK I shouldn't be running through most of my kit and having to use GCD heals.

Should've just left but didn't feel like leaving the roulette undone before reset.

Edit: Just ran into something better. Ultimate Legend Sage that doesn't know their class nor do they know WoD mechs. Raid was really rough anyways but I just laughed at them dying to a couple of the mechs on their own(prior to tanks fighting over aggro).

[Avatre]

They're also one of those tanks that pulls with Provoke but even if they were aware, they did nothing. I healed off 3 people for those pulls because he just wouldn't take aggro what-so-ever.

I'm a tank that sometimes pulls with provoke. Usually because of it's long range so that everything in the pull is coming close enough together to be hit by an AoE right away, rather than waiting for them to get close enough/use my ranged attack as we keep running to try and get them off the healer/DPS that is attacking while we are running to the second group(I still tend to do the ranged attack on the way, but when someone is further back, it makes it harder to get that mob)

[NekoMataMata]

I'm a tank that sometimes pulls with provoke. Usually because of it's long range so that everything in the pull is coming close enough together to be hit by an AoE right away, rather than waiting for them to get close enough/use my ranged attack as we keep running to try and get them off the healer/DPS that is attacking while we are running to the second group(I still tend to do the ranged attack on the way, but when someone is further back, it makes it harder to get that mob)

Most tanks have dashes at level 54ish+ though. Below that it doesn't really matter if you're using your enmity projectile mixed with aoes to collect the mobs by manually running up, but once you get your dash you should be rushing in.

The reason I see it as important is because provoke is very easy to pop once you're mid pull to peel stray mobs off the rest of your party if necessary while you continue to do your thing. Also the slightly higher range on provoke is nice for using it to peel because you can keep running ahead of your party and continuing to collect the pull.