Feedback on the delay of Savage

[SnowVix]

I would prefer no savage tiers. Why lock things behind something I can't do with out 7 other people who are always judging every little thing I do and blaming me even when I'm not the one who screwed up?

Savage causes anxiety and stress, it is not fun at all.

"This content doesn't appeal to me so no one should have it." is what you're really saying here.

[JamieRose]

"This content doesn't appeal to me so no one should have it." is what you're really saying here.

I don't care if you like savage. If that's what you like go nuts. I'm not expecting it to be taken away anytime soon.
I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete. My experience with statics is that they don't work with people and PF groups break up after three wipes.
The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

[LianaThorne]

I don't care if you like savage. If that's what you like go nuts. I'm not expecting it to be taken away anytime soon.
I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete. My experience with statics is that they don't work with people and PF groups break up after three wipes.
The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

So get better. You're saying you can't but it sounds to me like you gave up because you had a bad group and are frustrsted by PFs like 99.9% of raiders. Find a chill one and roll with them, I've met three of my statics directly through a random PF group and we all vibed well even with people making constant mistakes. Hell, my current group just got through P5S last night after like...16 hours of mistakes? No one gave each other any type of lip for making mistakes and just tried to explain the mechs and help each other through.

Yeah, you'll have to push yourself to learn your job/rotation and develop reflexes & reaction time but there are casual groups that just want to clear the tier and have fun doing it...they don't care about perfection.

[RicaRuin]

I don't care if you like savage. If that's what you like go nuts. I'm not expecting it to be taken away anytime soon.
I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete. My experience with statics is that they don't work with people and PF groups break up after three wipes.
The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

Just start your own Static with like-minded people. My Static is just a bunch of people that has fun clearing Raids in our own pace with lots of fun and no pressure.

[Tigerlilley]

I don't care if you like savage. If that's what you like go nuts. I'm not expecting it to be taken away anytime soon.
I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete. My experience with statics is that they don't work with people and PF groups break up after three wipes.
The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

All Savage can be completed easily later when you can go in unrestricted at a higher ilvl. If you don't want to raid cutting edge content, then just wait. You are not locked out forever, the rewards are never removed, stop being so dramatic.

[Saraide]

I don't care if you like savage. If that's what you like go nuts. I'm not expecting it to be taken away anytime soon.
I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete. My experience with statics is that they don't work with people and PF groups break up after three wipes.
The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

Have you ever considered that it might be your attitude that makes it impossible for statics to keep you?

[Payotz]

I don't care if you like savage. If that's what you like go nuts. I'm not expecting it to be taken away anytime soon.
I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete. My experience with statics is that they don't work with people and PF groups break up after three wipes.
The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

Unsynced with Echo.
I put up a PF for O8S just for shits and giggles and we just facetanked every single mechanic and cleared it in one pull.

If you wanna clear relevant content though, get a static or make a PF and prog, like everyone else.

[Liam_Harper]

The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

If I decided to hit myself in the foot with a sledgehammer, I'm not justified in being angry that it hurts.

You can't complete the content because you chose not to. You prefer to whine and be bitter. You did it to yourself.

[Packetdancer]

We didn't have this issue til the wow players came in and wows datamining sites came into play.

Whoa, hey, no. This game has always had people datamining it. SaintCoinach (the primary data-mining effort/toolset) predates the WoW influx by literal years; looking at the git repo, the first commit was literally in November of 2014.

Every game has people data-mining it; even if it's not to gain a material benefit, technically-minded people get curious and want to poke around in things.

Now, you could argue that the attitude towards that data-mining has changed -- that the former WoW players are more likely to look at that datamined content in hopes of gaining material advantage from it, or more likely to widely publicize said datamined content without regard for any potential spoilers. I'm not sure I'd agree, but it's certainly a debate you can have.

But saying that the datamining did not happen before the WoW influx is just plain inaccurate.

I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete.

I will argue until I'm out of breath that the MSQ should remain generally accessible to the playerbase, rather than imposing skill checks. But I will also vehemently express the opinion that it's okay for some rewards to be locked behind difficult content.

Yeah, it sucks when those rewards are ones you do want and the content is something you don't want to do. But sometimes that happens; it's the way of online gaming.

That said. Where savage specifically is concerned, I have also suggested in the past that once raids are an expansion past, it would probably not hurt to let you buy the gear outright with other tokens beside the savage clear ones. E.g., let people get the Alexander savage gear/weapons for glamour purposes using the normal-mode tokens (at 3x the rate of the savage books, or something).

Similarly, I'd suggest doing the same with alliance raids once their expansion is no longer current. It's painful to run an old alliance raid over and over and over hoping for that one glamour piece you want, meanwhile you're discarding the now-useless Mhachi Matter or Cracked Clusters or Manufactured Coins or whatever else. Let folks trade those items in for the gear, so that if they haven't gotten the glamour item after eight runs or whatever, they can just go get it outright and call it good.

At least it would make those tokens good for something, rather than just "quick, leave the instance before anyone opens boxes and you get trash in your inventory". Especially since it's not like gear from past raid tiers is remotely relevant as anything other than glamour now. (Well, and very niche scenarios, such as calculated BiS for specific ultimates.)

(I'm not sure any of that's relevant to the one-week delay in savage release, though.)

[JamieRose]

I will argue until I'm out of breath that the MSQ should remain generally accessible to the playerbase, rather than imposing skill checks. But I will also vehemently express the opinion that it's okay for some rewards to be locked behind difficult content.

Yeah, it sucks when those rewards are ones you do want and the content is something you don't want to do. But sometimes that happens; it's the way of online gaming.

That said. Where savage specifically is concerned, I have also suggested in the past that once raids are an expansion past, it would probably not hurt to let you buy the gear outright with other tokens beside the savage clear ones. E.g., let people get the Alexander savage gear/weapons for glamour purposes using the normal-mode tokens (at 3x the rate of the savage books, or something).

Similarly, I'd suggest doing the same with alliance raids once their expansion is no longer current. It's painful to run an old alliance raid over and over and over hoping for that one glamour piece you want, meanwhile you're discarding the now-useless Mhachi Matter or Cracked Clusters or Manufactured Coins or whatever else. Let folks trade those items in for the gear, so that if they haven't gotten the glamour item after eight runs or whatever, they can just go get it outright and call it good.

At least it would make those tokens good for something, rather than just "quick, leave the instance before anyone opens boxes and you get trash in your inventory". Especially since it's not like gear from past raid tiers is remotely relevant as anything other than glamour now. (Well, and very niche scenarios, such as calculated BiS for specific ultimates.)

(I'm not sure any of that's relevant to the one-week delay in savage release, though.)

I appreciate your fair minded and well thought out counter-argument.