Feedback on the delay of Savage

[Imora]

Datamining really did not have any impact this tier beyond people malding about it on Twitter.
Knowing attack animations and debuff icons in advance probably saved world first teams... a minute at most. It's a non-issue that's blown out of proportion.

It's less of that and more of the principle of it.

We didn't have this issue til the wow players came in and wows datamining sites came into play.

They only get better at digging things up.

[Liam_Harper]

The content might as well not exist for me. I think I'm well justified in being upset by it.

If I decided to hit myself in the foot with a sledgehammer, I'm not justified in being angry that it hurts.

You can't complete the content because you chose not to. You prefer to whine and be bitter. You did it to yourself.

[Kazhar]

It's less of that and more of the principle of it.

We didn't have this issue til the wow players came in and wows datamining sites came into play.

They only get better at digging things up.

I've played this game for only 3 years but I'm still old enough to know that datamining was already very established before the WoW wave.
It was already enough of an issue that Soken begged players to not datamine his songs.

[Packetdancer]

We didn't have this issue til the wow players came in and wows datamining sites came into play.

Whoa, hey, no. This game has always had people datamining it. SaintCoinach (the primary data-mining effort/toolset) predates the WoW influx by literal years; looking at the git repo, the first commit was literally in November of 2014.

Every game has people data-mining it; even if it's not to gain a material benefit, technically-minded people get curious and want to poke around in things.

Now, you could argue that the attitude towards that data-mining has changed -- that the former WoW players are more likely to look at that datamined content in hopes of gaining material advantage from it, or more likely to widely publicize said datamined content without regard for any potential spoilers. I'm not sure I'd agree, but it's certainly a debate you can have.

But saying that the datamining did not happen before the WoW influx is just plain inaccurate.

I just really dislike that rewards I want are locked behind content that I can't complete.

I will argue until I'm out of breath that the MSQ should remain generally accessible to the playerbase, rather than imposing skill checks. But I will also vehemently express the opinion that it's okay for some rewards to be locked behind difficult content.

Yeah, it sucks when those rewards are ones you do want and the content is something you don't want to do. But sometimes that happens; it's the way of online gaming.

That said. Where savage specifically is concerned, I have also suggested in the past that once raids are an expansion past, it would probably not hurt to let you buy the gear outright with other tokens beside the savage clear ones. E.g., let people get the Alexander savage gear/weapons for glamour purposes using the normal-mode tokens (at 3x the rate of the savage books, or something).

Similarly, I'd suggest doing the same with alliance raids once their expansion is no longer current. It's painful to run an old alliance raid over and over and over hoping for that one glamour piece you want, meanwhile you're discarding the now-useless Mhachi Matter or Cracked Clusters or Manufactured Coins or whatever else. Let folks trade those items in for the gear, so that if they haven't gotten the glamour item after eight runs or whatever, they can just go get it outright and call it good.

At least it would make those tokens good for something, rather than just "quick, leave the instance before anyone opens boxes and you get trash in your inventory". Especially since it's not like gear from past raid tiers is remotely relevant as anything other than glamour now. (Well, and very niche scenarios, such as calculated BiS for specific ultimates.)

(I'm not sure any of that's relevant to the one-week delay in savage release, though.)

[JamieRose]

I will argue until I'm out of breath that the MSQ should remain generally accessible to the playerbase, rather than imposing skill checks. But I will also vehemently express the opinion that it's okay for some rewards to be locked behind difficult content.

Yeah, it sucks when those rewards are ones you do want and the content is something you don't want to do. But sometimes that happens; it's the way of online gaming.

That said. Where savage specifically is concerned, I have also suggested in the past that once raids are an expansion past, it would probably not hurt to let you buy the gear outright with other tokens beside the savage clear ones. E.g., let people get the Alexander savage gear/weapons for glamour purposes using the normal-mode tokens (at 3x the rate of the savage books, or something).

Similarly, I'd suggest doing the same with alliance raids once their expansion is no longer current. It's painful to run an old alliance raid over and over and over hoping for that one glamour piece you want, meanwhile you're discarding the now-useless Mhachi Matter or Cracked Clusters or Manufactured Coins or whatever else. Let folks trade those items in for the gear, so that if they haven't gotten the glamour item after eight runs or whatever, they can just go get it outright and call it good.

At least it would make those tokens good for something, rather than just "quick, leave the instance before anyone opens boxes and you get trash in your inventory". Especially since it's not like gear from past raid tiers is remotely relevant as anything other than glamour now. (Well, and very niche scenarios, such as calculated BiS for specific ultimates.)

(I'm not sure any of that's relevant to the one-week delay in savage release, though.)

I appreciate your fair minded and well thought out counter-argument.

[NekoMataMata]

Even if you're not a fan of it, spacing out releases more feels a bit more natural. There might be earlier clears but it feels right.