Shield/Pure Healer Split Feedback

[Sebazy]

It's a bit of a classic case of WHM being made for a game that doesn't exist.... Yet again =(

WHM has really solid oGCD mitigation tools to aid tanks. Benison and Aquaveil are really solid at that.

Of course, this is at a point where tank healing at the end game is about as relevant as it is in Sastasha

[Gemina]

Honest question, do you play any savage or ultimate, literally every single raidwide will one shot you without at least one mitigation, third and fourth floor generally need at least 2, ultimate can need up to 4, and this is just the raidwides, mechanics need mitigation as well, P4S for example has around 30 instances of one shot damage in a 14 minute fight, temperance ain’t coveting that mitigation is king over strong healing, getting one shot by a mechanic makes your healing throughput completely useless and that’s where WHM struggles.

Free mitigation is just so much more useful than anything WHM can offer because again getting one shot by a mechanic invalidates all other healing

And on the subject of spreadlo like I said under dissipation it’s free because you get three aetherflow that refund you the damage lost by one broil

In order for this argument to be valid, a composition consisting of at least one WHM would have to be incapable of clearing the content. Whether or not I have participated in savage or ultimate has no bearing on the matter whatsoever. That is not what is being called into question here. The relevant matter is WHM's effectiveness in all content in FFXIV. You can talk about all the raid wides until your blue in the face, and the fact will remain that if a composition consisting of at least one WHM can take care of it, then their need for mitigation is zero.

WHM has free mitigation BTW. Both AoE and single target. So again I ask what is your point?

Spreadlo just shows your inability to accept fact. It is NEVER free. It will ALWAYS cost you one GCD, a GCD that can and VERY likely should be used towards damage. As a SCH main, even I hate to admit that spreadlo is near worthless. A truly antiquated, relic of a skill that has somehow survived since ARR. Really cool animation and sound effect though. I will give it that.

[Supersnow845]

In order for this argument to be valid, a composition consisting of at least one WHM would have to be incapable of clearing the content. Whether or not I have participated in savage or ultimate has no bearing on the matter whatsoever. That is not what is being called into question here. The relevant matter is WHM's effectiveness in all content in FFXIV. You can talk about all the raid wides until your blue in the face, and the fact will remain that if a composition consisting of at least one WHM can take care of it, then their need for mitigation is zero.

WHM has free mitigation BTW. Both AoE and single target. So again I ask what is your point?

Spreadlo just shows your inability to accept fact. It is NEVER free. It will ALWAYS cost you one GCD, a GCD that can and VERY likely should be used towards damage. As a SCH main, even I hate to admit that spreadlo is near worthless. A truly antiquated, relic of a skill that has somehow survived since ARR. Really cool animation and sound effect though. I will give it that.

WHM can clear the content, you know why, because the other healer is carrying the mitigation, saying the class is fine because it’s being carried by the other healer is not a valid statement, double WHM cannot clear week 1 because it doesn’t have enough mitigation, this shows it lacking in mitigation, okay you might say AST is also lacking in mitigation, but AST brings something to the table to cover for that weakness, WHM does not

And seriously if you are a SCH and don’t see a value in spreadlo then I have no idea what game you are playing because it certainly isn’t FFXIV where spreadlo is in contention for the single most overpowered ability in the game across any of the 19 classes

[Rilifane]

Gemina is right: Adlo is never free outside prepull/ transitions.
Even if you use Dissipation, the stacks could have been used on ED and as such, you're still paying opportunity costs for it. Because Dissipation doesn't only become available after a Spreadlo, it's always an option to use for additional 300 potency or additional AF heals if you'd have to dip into GCD heals otherwise - not just after a Spreadlo.

I disagree though that Spreadlo is near worthless or a relic of the past.
It's the strongest shield in the game that rarely gets used. The reason for this isn't that it's weak, the reason is that it becomes easier with time to get by without it (gear, experience, better coordination) but Spreadlo itself is very strong and if a boss has transitions like p2s or p3s that give you time to quickly prepare one, it's a lot of free shielding that has the unique advantage of being able to get buffed by single target heal buffs and healing magic increases like Dissipation and Fey Illumination.

• Protraction: 594 potency
• Protraction, Krasis: 712 potency
• Protraction, Krasis, Dissipation: 855 potency

If you have a BRD you can even cross the 1k threshhold without wasting any raidwide heal increases specifically for it like Asylum, Mantra or FE. These are all single target heal buffs that would otherwise get ignored/ go to waste.
And it is something you can prepare up to 30s in advance, making it much stronger during transitions compared to direct heals and even regens.

It's also still strong for cheesing mechanics like tank lb3 strat for Curtain Call. I recommend looking it up on YT if you have never seen it, it's hilarious to watch.
Just the properly buffed Spreadlo takes care of 850-1000 (or more if you push it) potency worth of damage taken which easily soaks several of the explosions going off with 80% mitigation from tank lb3 alone. Can other healer comps do this as well? Yes. But having a SCH in your team makes it a lot safer and less prone to errors from slightly mistimed mitigation or explosions.
Or the heal buff you get after FoF. Spreadlo is still a dps loss but the buffed shield alone can take care of both aoes and several tank autos, giving both healers time to recover resources after FoF to have big cooldowns for Life's Agonies up again if they didn't bring an Macrocosmos cheese AST.

None of that matters once you get a bit of gear though so yes, Spreadlo quickly loses value. It's unfortunately the lowest skill on the priority list outside transitions and the first to get ditched; I wish it wasn't because I like the unique advantage it has but you're not going to Spreadlo if a Recit + Indom does the trick.
Followed by SS which was the strongest heal that got ditched first before EW because of its AF cost.

And that WHM can clear content is also a poor metric to measure the worth of the class and one SE unfortunately seems to use to repeatedly tell us directly and indirectly that WHM is fine.
In reality it simply brings nothing special to the table that is an actual gain and other healers can't do equally well or better.

[Liam_Harper]

As a SCH main, even I hate to admit that spreadlo is near worthless. A truly antiquated, relic of a skill that has somehow survived since ARR. Really cool animation and sound effect though. I will give it that.

Not to be rude but whatever you're on, I'd like some.

[Kabzy]

And seriously if you are a SCH and don’t see a value in spreadlo then I have no idea what game you are playing because it certainly isn’t FFXIV where spreadlo is in contention for the single most overpowered ability in the game across any of the 19 classes

I wouldn't call it worthless, but it's not the most overpowered ability when it's suboptimal to use in all content bar ultimate. In fact the only real time you can use it in current savage is the couple of GCDs you get for free before the adds phase on P3S. Gemina is correct in that it's not free, and outside of ultimate it's a waste when abilities like Expedient and Consolation mitigate any raidwide efficiently.

[Deceptus]

Recently I had to unleash some praying mantis kung-fu when I mentioned that WHM isn't in a bad place among the other healers despite their lack of mitigation ability. It's almost like players want this job to be in a bad place, and in perpetual misery. Mitigation has been the chief go-to argument in this regard.

Mitigation comes in two forms, and two methods of application from my observation. The first are barriers that are actually capable of extending the max HP of the target. These have their own HP and 'break' once this amount is depleted. Examples would be SCH Adlo, or AST Celestial Intersect. The second is straight damage reduction. This kind of mitigation remains active so long as the duration timer is not at zero. Examples would be SCH Sacred Soil, or WHM Temperance. Application comes via the GCD or oGCDs, which is also important when it comes to evaluating their effectiveness. While barrier type mitigation can be applied by both methods, straight damage reduction only come via oGCD.

When it comes to mitigation, in order for it to be effective utility, it needs to somehow translate to faster death to the opposition. It isn't death prevention. I strongly dislike this fact, but it is a fact nonetheless. If the ability is an oGCD, then there is no discussion to be had when it comes to their effectiveness, and there is nothing to compare the ability to. It is free mitigation every XX seconds, so there is no point to not use these skills. The true battle takes place with GCD mitigation, and whether to use them vs a straight heal via GCD (assuming you are exhausted of oGCD heals), or if you should be using it for damage.

In the case of a GCD shield vs a GCD heal, they both essentially do the same thing, and they provide HP to the target to prevent them from getting KO'd from an incoming attack. All that matters in this scenario is that the target has enough HP to survive the upcoming attack, making the shield completely irrelevant. We have to start to look at MP economy in order to make comparisons at this point.

In the case of GCD shield vs damage, the latter wins every time so long as the GCD being used for damage does not translate to a player dying because you did not heal them. In this case, it reverts back to GCD shield vs GCD heal.

What all this means is GCD mitigation serves no purpose in FFXIV, and the cases where it would actually beat out a GCD heal that does the same thing, or straight damage are so few and far between that it warrants being looked at by the dev team. Especially if they truly want to have a barrier/pure healer dichotomy. Right now, this line is so blurred it may as well not even be there. The good news about that is it leaves WHM in a much better place than some players will give it credit for.

Healing in FFXIV = (Enough HP to survive attack + 1)

Had a discussion on reddit with someone who basically took that line of argument. Claimed that I "didn't know how to play a shield healer properly". To which I replied:

AoE shield is less than 10% of your hp bar at most gear levels, even less than that for a tank. If that is the difference between life and death in your group, they need to learn what reprisal / feint-addle / troubadour / sacred soil (etc) are.

If you're a SCH and you need an aoe shield, you're going to deploy a Critlo or at a base level, an Adlo or just not shield and fey blessing / Indom the damage.

But please, tell me how I don't know how to shield /s

[Valmaxian]

I get the impression that Yoshi sees the healers like this:

WHM/SGE: Entry-level Pure/Shield healers
AST/SCH: More challenging Pure/Shield healers

I don't like this as a design philosophy, but it just feels like they are pushing it, and obviously the healer community wants more nuance to all these jobs regardless of player skill. They are going to leave WHM bare-bones, SGE = watered down SCH, AST is our convoluted WHM with a bit more potential for speed kills, and SCH = the actual shield healer. But the effective gameplay style remains the same 2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 (or just 3-3-3-3-3-3 in AoE situations).

[Mortex]

In order for this argument to be valid, a composition consisting of at least one WHM would have to be incapable of clearing the content. Whether or not I have participated in savage or ultimate has no bearing on the matter whatsoever. That is not what is being called into question here. The relevant matter is WHM's effectiveness in all content in FFXIV. You can talk about all the raid wides until your blue in the face, and the fact will remain that if a composition consisting of at least one WHM can take care of it, then their need for mitigation is zero.

WHM has free mitigation BTW. Both AoE and single target. So again I ask what is your point?

Spreadlo just shows your inability to accept fact. It is NEVER free. It will ALWAYS cost you one GCD, a GCD that can and VERY likely should be used towards damage. As a SCH main, even I hate to admit that spreadlo is near worthless. A truly antiquated, relic of a skill that has somehow survived since ARR. Really cool animation and sound effect though. I will give it that.

The point is a spreadlo with a decent number of situations can save you around 1 or 2 gcd heals in multi hit situations when used in combination with % mitigation (1-2 gcd for both healer) . For example dsr p7 gigaflare or akh morn tower. The gain outweighs a decent number of times the cost.

[Semirhage]

In order for this argument to be valid, a composition consisting of at least one WHM would have to be incapable of clearing the content. Whether or not I have participated in savage or ultimate has no bearing on the matter whatsoever. That is not what is being called into question here. The relevant matter is WHM's effectiveness in all content in FFXIV. You can talk about all the raid wides until your blue in the face, and the fact will remain that if a composition consisting of at least one WHM can take care of it, then their need for mitigation is zero.

"WHM has zero unique capabilities, worse free healing, and its personal damage is never enough to make up for this, and it ends up falling into last place as far as high end desirability on a constant basis because of this" != "WHM is incapable of clearing content".

I swear it's like Scholar mains *want* their job to be worst in role or something, because they constantly dismiss actual balancing problems with WHM in favor of complaining that the strongest shield in the game "feeeels weak" because it costs a GCD, despite nearly every single raid tier's data showing SCH consistently as one of the most powerful healers in the game. Scholar isn't weak, it's just boring. WHM is boring AND weak.