Rescue is Griefing

[Gemina]

Rescue is disliked because it is intrusive and people will complain about it, like it or not, that's called feedback, and having our flow messed with in an intrusive way like that is a very valid thing to complain about to us even if it's "lunacy" or "pearl clutching" to you. It's just bad game design that makes for a very unpleasant experience even if of course from the healer's perspective, it's just whatever.

The issue your argument has is your not stating why it is bad game design. I know you think that being yanked from your position is bad game design, but feelings and anecdotal evidence doesn't actually equate to bad design. You would actually need to provide solid evidence that the skill is causing fundamental issues in PvE content. And based on your arguments, you would actually have to prove that clears are harder to obtain because healers are severely reducing group DPS through the abusive use of Rescue. Good luck with that.

The other issue is the complete and utter inability to even listen to those in favor of Rescue, and their reasoning behind it. They have actually stated valid reasons not based on feelings or anecdotal evidence to give strength to their arguments. Whether you want to believe it or not, Rescue has saved a lot of players from eating dirt. It has been used in prog strats. It does require skill to use it effectively. These are all facts. I know it sucks to get punched in the face with the truth, but it is what it is.

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

[Skivvy]

Ended up in Rabanatre again tonight for my alliance raid, although I was just backup DNC this time as DPS was in need. Our party was a hot mess. lol. There were about 3 of us that were fine (including one of the healers, thankfully), but everyone else seemed pretty new to the fights as they were just taking massive damage starting from the very first fight.

But anyway, on the last fight, the SGE managed to yoink one of the stragglers into that spinning hand/safe circle mechanic. As I mentioned earlier, that's one of the fights where I do normally look out for people who I can try to rescue. Yes, it's only a silly alliance raid, and it happens near the end of the fight so it's not like it matters much if that person were to die, but it's still incredibly satisfying to see it pulled off successfully. Also, you can't attack the boss during that part anyway, so it's not like you're ruining anyone's uptime if you give 'em a pull.

At the end of the day though, I wouldn't really be upset if they removed the skill entirely, although I would prefer that they find a way to rework it first, and preferably in a way that we're not yanking people all over the arena.

[ElizanderNorisse]

It’s a double edged weapon.

[LittleImp]

The issue your argument has is your not stating why it is bad game design. I know you think that being yanked from your position is bad game design, but feelings and anecdotal evidence doesn't actually equate to bad design. You would actually need to provide solid evidence that the skill is causing fundamental issues in PvE content. And based on your arguments, you would actually have to prove that clears are harder to obtain because healers are severely reducing group DPS through the abusive use of Rescue. Good luck with that.

The other issue is the complete and utter inability to even listen to those in favor of Rescue, and their reasoning behind it. They have actually stated valid reasons not based on feelings or anecdotal evidence to give strength to their arguments. Whether you want to believe it or not, Rescue has saved a lot of players from eating dirt. It has been used in prog strats. It does require skill to use it effectively. These are all facts. I know it sucks to get punched in the face with the truth, but it is what it is.

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

A skill being unfun is actually a completely acceptable justification for asking for it to be removed or reworked. I literally do not know a single person that 'enjoys' being on the receiving end of Rescue. I do know a few healers who constantly gloat about using it though, and they're the same type of cringeworthy "I DECIDE WHO LIVES AND DIES" healers that everyone just kind of awkwardly laughs off and then avoids partying with.

People have provided plenty of reasonable arguments about why the skill is unfun or has an otherwise negative impact on party performance. You've just arbitrarily decided that their feedback is invalid because you don't agree with it, and are leaning into your own anecdotes and feelings while dismissing others whom you feel are doing the same. I'm not really sure what kind of evidence you want; Do you want people to link you a bunch of combat logs where rescue killed someone, or denied them uptime for no reason? These types of situations obviously happen, and anyone who runs content regularly has seen it happen plenty of times.

Rescue has been a pretty widely complained about skill for years for many different reasons, and something that causes this much obvious friction is absolutely worth revisiting, whether that means reworking it or removing it altogether. We all know they've removed or reworked other skills over much less.

[Sebazy]

You think it doesn't get used for griefing much because you play healer, it's pretty much every run of Dhon Mheg or every 4-5 runs of crystal tower where I'm not healer is where I see it. GMs also rarely act on reports other than telling you to just blacklist them so that does a whole lot of nothing.

I'm sorry but that's absolute BS.

Yes I main healer, but I do casual content as a dancer because playing healer in 24 is unbearably boring at this point.

Since 6.1 I've seen exactly one case of rescue getting abused. It was in Aglaia at Nald'Thal, the noise gave it away and they immediately got kicked out of the duty. I've personally accidentally fat fingered it once in dead ends pre 6.1 as well but no harm came of it and I apologised profusely for it. That's 2 occurrences in hundreds of duties since EW.

By comparison, I see tanks refusing to put on stance and take agro practically every other 24 man run which usually does get someone else killed. Where's your energy for that son?

[Sebazy]

Getting butt hurt when a healer yanks you just isn't enough to justify removing the skill. If you can provide actual feed of how Rescue negatively impacts the game, I am all ears.

Rather amusingly, it is actually possible to quantify how frequently rescue gets used to grief things like Aglaia's Nald Thal Balance mechanic.

Rescue shows up as a cast along with a time stamp and target on logs which is handy

In Verde's case, the only rescue I've found in an uploaded Nald Thal was at 5 minutes in on the tank just after the adds spawned.

Sadly Mheg isn't tracked, but I assume the rescue griefing is about the tightrope section at the last boss, failing that doesn't give a debuff, death or anything though does it? Last I remember it was just a black screen for a few seconds. I'm gonna /shrug that one.

[DeltaCyan]

I'm all for rescue getting removed/reworked. Even when used in good faith it can cause even more damage, some of which the rescuer wont even realize.

Say I'm playing black mage and an aoe appears under me, I know that I can sit in the aoe and can safely slidecast out of it in time. However, the healer uses rescue from the other side of the map. This not only interrupts the cast, but also drags me through other aoes causing me to get hit anyways, and also render me unable to refresh my timers in some cases. I think the worst part is the lack of trust, and lack of accountability on the healers part. In their eyes they did nothing wrong.

I've had situations where the healer does it on purpose in a genuine attempt to be useful, while not understanding the damage they are causing. And others where its a complete accident, fat fingering rescue while trying to use benison or other mitigation in case someone gets hit.

Of course the worst is when actual greifers get their hands on it. Like using rescue to yoink a tank with a cleave into the party stack, and even then they get the convenient excuse of "oops tee-hee fat fingered rescue"

I guess I'm also just upset that this healer "utility" skill survived, when other utility skills get deleted like virus, eye for an eye, largesse, hell even SB cleric stance just to name a few. Meanwhile the janky, unreliable, upsetting ability that disrupts other people stays.

[Sunhwapark]

and lack of accountability on the healers part.

Eh you aren't wrong, the healer role has been coddled to death, it's at a point where you can avoid responsibility for everything whilst simultaneously doing nothing.

[Kenky]

I worry for you if you genuinely think Rescue is griefing.

Does it get abused? Yeah. Is it ONLY used for abuse? No.

I know plenty of healers that have used Rescue to get people out of Insta-death AoEs or getting the off-tank / DPS into a position to be able to actually perform the Mechanics. Many of these times, they have been chewed out for it. So ask yourself one simple question.

"Am I at risk of dying / causing a wipe because of my position in this fight?" If yes, then you're getting Rescued and the fault lays with you for being out of position. Not the healers. The only reason it exists up to this point is because Tanks & DPS refuse to do mechanics, which rather often kills the entire party. But instead of looking internally and realizing they are the ones that screwed up, they punish the healer for not healing well enough.

You cannot heal a 1-shot. You have defensives & utility skills to help take pressure off the Healers. Use them. (Reprisal, Feint, Second Wind, Bloodbath, Head Graze, etc.)

And to the healers that act like they are the only reason people are alive? Paladin exists. They can actually heal BETTER than you (in some cases. Not all!). So stow the damn ego at the door. You're not impressing anyone.

[RobynDaBank]

You know what's true griefing? Healers being allowed to heal me when I'm DRK and getting my Living Dead to pop. None of this "muh uptime" stuff!