Rescue is Griefing

[ZedxKayn]

Rescue should be opt in or opt out and I don't get why the idea of giving players the choice to be rescued or not got people frothing at the mouth.

Personally I've had enough of being rescued 10 seconds before the mechanic goes off when I was already slidecasting my way to the safe spot in the first place. DF healers tend not to know better.

[AnotherPerson]

Rescue should be opt in or opt out and I don't get why the idea of giving players the choice to be rescued or not got people frothing at the mouth.

Personally I've had enough of being rescued 10 seconds before the mechanic goes off when I was already slidecasting my way to the safe spot in the first place. DF healers tend not to know better.

If it's opt-in and opt-out, then the skill won't always activate when the healer uses it, thereby throwing the healer off and wasting their time to judge the situation and try to pull you to safety. Human error is normal - all players make it, whether by being DPS, tank, or healer. Trying to remove a healer's utility because you don't like it is because they have the possibility of griefing you is comparable to the healer saying "I don't want you to greed for DPS because you have the possibility of taking damage and making my job harder, thereby griefing me".

In that case, you might as well just sign an opt-out raise of shame if you ever happen to die.

[ZedxKayn]

If it's opt-in and opt-out, then the skill won't always activate when the healer uses it, thereby throwing the healer off and wasting their time to judge the situation and try to pull you to safety. Human error is normal - all players make it, whether by being DPS, tank, or healer. Trying to remove a healer's utility because you don't like it is because they have the possibility of griefing you is comparable to the healer saying "I don't want you to greed for DPS because you have the possibility of taking damage and making my job harder, thereby griefing me".

In that case, you might as well just sign an opt-out raise of shame if you ever happen to die.

Tbf I'm deeply dissatisfied with the current state of healers, so much that I pretty much quit the role when EW dropped despite my then undying love for AST, but as far as utility goes, a skill that messes with the experiences of other players to such an intrusive extent is probably the last type of utility I'd want.

I think a design similar to Thresh's lantern would be best because it is entirely non-intrusive. Getting rescued when you're enjoying uptime (or alternatively trying your goddamn best not to die of boredom) feels awful, whereas I think a "lantern" would be very satisfying. To keep on the LoL comparison, there's a reason Thresh's lantern is one of the most satisfying skills in the game while Tahm Kench's ally vore tech makes people mald. The latter is basically rescue.

To explain the lantern, Thresh throws it where he choses (so in XIV's case the equivalent of the lantern would probably be thrown at the boss's ass) and whoever clicks it will be dragged to Thresh. So it's basically as if the healer was "offering" a rescue while allowing the potential rescuee to first off choose IF they want to take it, and then WHEN they want to take it.
Because I do actually like rescue used well but a good 95% of the rescues me or the people I queue with have gotten casted on have been absolute ass and personally I dislike getting rescued a lot more than I dislike raising or healing people.

[Midareyukki]

I think a design similar to Thresh's lantern would be best because it is entirely non-intrusive. Getting rescued when you're enjoying uptime (or alternatively trying your goddamn best not to die of boredom) feels awful, whereas I think a "lantern" would be very satisfying. To keep on the LoL comparison, there's a reason Thresh's lantern is one of the most satisfying skills in the game while Tahm Kench's ally vore tech makes people mald. The latter is basically rescue.

I can vouch for this. I don't mald with Tahm's devour, but it does catch me off guard, both as a teammate and as an opponent. Thresh feels fairer.

But as I mentioned above, the issue with this is people having the reaction to use the Lantern. Some people are idiots and don't know they're diving into danger. Some don't know the mechanic at all. Some people are too slow to react or mistime the action. And some people just get distracted.

Which, great, it removes the blame from the healer, as all responsibility will now fall on the person being rescued, but sometimes an impromptu and intrusive rescue can save a whole run.

Edit: Not saying it's a bad idea, just that there are caveats we either need to accept or work around. It's not clear-cut.

[Gemina]

Rescue should be opt in or opt out and I don't get why the idea of giving players the choice to be rescued or not got people frothing at the mouth.

If were opt in/out, then they might as well delete the skill. Despite what you think, the majority of healers don't get some kind of rise out of being able to force a player to their position. They are trying to help you for crying out loud.

Personally I've had enough of being rescued 10 seconds before the mechanic goes off when I was already slidecasting my way to the safe spot in the first place. DF healers tend not to know better.

Then quit. Stop exaggerating to make a point. What is happening to you is a healer is pulling you because you're greeding. Which means you are needlessly pushing DMG when there isn't even an enrage timer, and the only one who cares is you. If you continue to greed in casual content, you can expect to get rescued again, and again, and again.

[LittleImp]

Which means you are needlessly pushing DMG when there isn't even an enrage timer, and the only one who cares is you. If you continue to greed in casual content, you can expect to get rescued again, and again, and again.

Some people are simply more skilled than you, and are able to greed in a completely consistent and safe way because they know the content well. It should not be the place of someone who thinks maintaining uptime is "needlessly pushing damage" to ever make a decision about positioning for another player.

[Gemina]

Some people are simply more skilled than you, and are able to greed in a completely consistent and safe way because they know the content well. It should not be the place of someone who thinks maintaining uptime is "needlessly pushing damage" to ever make a decision about positioning for another player.

The skill level it takes to greed in comparison to what the healer is doing when they evaluate a rescue isn't even close. Don't even go there. Not only are they paying attention to what they are doing, they are also paying attention what the other seven players are doing. Your position on the battlefield isn't some god-given right. Stop pretending it is.

[ZedxKayn]

The skill level it takes to greed in comparison to what the healer is doing when they evaluate a rescue isn't even close. Don't even go there.

It's a different and not very comparable skillset but uhh if you think the "skill" required to rescue dwarfs the skill required to greed well and safely you pretty much just (further) outed yourself as someone probably doesn't know what they're talking about.

[Padudu]

The skill level it takes to greed in comparison to what the healer is doing when they evaluate a rescue isn't even close. Don't even go there. Not only are they paying attention to what they are doing, they are also paying attention what the other seven players are doing. Your position on the battlefield isn't some god-given right. Stop pretending it is.

LMAO this is a cooked take. Why do you want to control other players actions so much? Like I said earlier in the thread, rescue does have it uses every now and then, but in no way does that give healers the right to just rescue willy nilly - ESPECIALLY if the dps already knows what they're doing. Let DPS have fun and greed if they want to. It's literally what they are there for.

DPS still has to pay attention to what other players are doing, especially in savage content and time their raid buffs. It's not like they are mindlessly pushing buttons and solely looking at the boss. You make it sound like healers have this ultra complex job where they constantly have to monitor everyone's hp and debuffs or they could die at any moment when really most times you are just popping an ogcd heal, some mitigations, then your 2111111112 rotation.

[LittleImp]

The skill level it takes to greed in comparison to what the healer is doing when they evaluate a rescue isn't even close. Don't even go there. Not only are they paying attention to what they are doing, they are also paying attention what the other seven players are doing. Your position on the battlefield isn't some god-given right. Stop pretending it is.

This is actually hilarious.

But yeah, this kind of attitude is exactly why I dislike rescue in a nutshell. Every healer I've met who brags about using it frequently seems to be convinced they're some gigabrain genius, and that every other player around them is some kind of drooling idiot that needs to be saved from themselves.

If greeding is easy, why do you feel compelled to stop people from doing it? Did you know that greeding is largely based around how your GCD clock interacts with fight timings, and that rescuing someone out of one greed has cascading effects that can impact the viability of all future greeds, turning them into an actual risk or a compounding DPS loss?

It's a different and not very comparable skillset but uhh if you think the "skill" required to rescue dwarfs the skill required to greed well and safely you pretty much just (further) outed yourself as someone probably doesn't know what they're talking about.

As with most people that brag about using rescue, the hardest content they've probably ever touched is an expert roulette dungeon or a 24 man.