Why does everyone complain about STORY based MMO's?

[VelKallor]

It also lets people who just want to hop into current content to play do so.

1. FF 14 isnt raid or die.

2. FF 14 isnt rush to endgame , the game starts at level 1

3. if thats what you want, WOW is ----> that way.

4. I know more than a few that DID rush to endgame..and they have regretted that mistake bitterly. One in particular was pressured HARD so he could tank for their "elite raid static"..the static fell apart..I ran into him on an OCE server months later and we talked....he is livid that he allowed his game experience to be wrecked in the "rush to endgame". So he is starting over on a new character and doing ALL the MSQ from the beginning..he also admitted he wished he had listened to me and pushed back.

Was overjoyed to see him again.

One of FF 14s major selling points and advantages is that there IS no rush to endgame, you play as much, or as little as you want, when you want. Its been a hugely successful model for years, so why would anyone in their right minds do a Blizzard and try to fix what ISNT broken?

No, removing the MSQ's isn't necessary - and isn't what many of us would like to see happen

"Many"? Id say close to all.

The MSQ will never be removed..not to mention the fact that doing so would be a massive insult to all the staff who worked their rears off to give us this content. One of WOWS most MASSIVE blunders was gutting the story to rush to endgame...so id rather not see us mimic a game whose developers have given new meaning to the words abject failure.

Ion and his "D" team have basically wrecked the entire franchise..do you REALLY want us to follow the footsteps of an MMO whose playerbase is literally walking out the door in an endless stream? Their focus on raiding alone has cost them massively, the "rush to endgame" mentality has succeeded in more or less driving out a vast swathe of their playerbase.

They got told again and again "leave we dont want you"...so they left.

What was it they said?

"If you dont raid, pvp or do m plus get out the game isnt for you"

and then months later.................

"HEY where is everyone, the game is empty Blizz please fix"

I mean, I think the option for new players should let them start in 6.1 or w/e with a free story skip/level boost with the purchase of the new expansion in 7.0.

Thats like taking Lord of the Rings and just hand them the final chapters of Return of the King...they wont have a single idea what the hell is going on. The story elements of ALL the expacs are part and parcel of Endwalker..the idea itself is utterly ludicrous.

Seriously, I ask you, when you buy a brand new book, do you then flip to the end and read the last few pages? Buy a mystery book and then flip to the end to see whodunit?

When so many seems to hate the main story of FFXIV, would it be lot better if the main story gets removed entirely in 7.0?

Who is "so many'? The miniscule percentage of negative nancies in this forum? You dont speak for anyone but yourself.

i am seeing no one that i know saying they hated the MSQ...and as the playerbase of FF 14 is in the miliions, you have no way of knowing what any of them want or like.

You dont.

I dont.

The difference is I claim to speak for no one but myself.

[Cilia]

That's cool that you find combat related things to do after you complete the MSQ, but when you are a new player going through it for the first time for hundreds of hours and have little gameplay outside of dungeons then you have to see why the MSQ being combat light can be seen as an issue.

The issue with that is non-instanced content is... really shallow. Since the game sticks heavily to the tank / healer / DPS trinity, anything that isn't designed for party gameplay needs to be pretty simple... and fighting monsters in the overworld gets really boring, really fast, since it's just using the same combo over and over (with a self-heal mechanic if you really need it) until whatever it is you're fighting dies. Solo instances can break that up, but they too come down to the same shallow gameplay (dodge AoEs, kill adds, self-heal if necessary, beat main target until it stops moving). Roleplay mode helps, but mechanically speaking that's just forcing people to play a dumbed-down shell of another Job.

I agree the number of cutscenes, particularly in Shadowbringers and even more so in Endwalker, can be a bit egregious, but if you find yourself bored with cutscenes just go do some dungeons or PvP. Dungeons teach you how to do your role and play your job (functionally, if not well) and PvP is a nice distraction that affords cool glamour options. Besides which, it's a modern Final Fantasy game; boatloads of cutscenes are par for the course and have been so since... the PSX era? Or did it really get egregious with X? Either way, you should know what you're signing up for.

[Amenara]

The issue with that is non-instanced content is... really shallow. Since the game sticks heavily to the tank / healer / DPS trinity, anything that isn't designed for party gameplay needs to be pretty simple... and fighting monsters in the overworld gets really boring, really fast, since it's just using the same combo over and over (with a self-heal mechanic if you really need it) until whatever it is you're fighting dies. Solo instances can break that up, but they too come down to the same shallow gameplay (dodge AoEs, kill adds, self-heal if necessary, beat main target until it stops moving). Roleplay mode helps, but mechanically speaking that's just forcing people to play a dumbed-down shell of another Job.

I agree the number of cutscenes, particularly in Shadowbringers and even more so in Endwalker, can be a bit egregious, but if you find yourself bored with cutscenes just go do some dungeons or PvP. Dungeons teach you how to do your role and play your job (functionally, if not well) and PvP is a nice distraction that affords cool glamour options. Besides which, it's a modern Final Fantasy game; boatloads of cutscenes are par for the course and have been so since... the PSX era? Or did it really get egregious with X? Either way, you should know what you're signing up for.

I think that speaks to the quality of lower level gameplay more so than just blaming it on the trinity system. Jobs are incredibly shallow from 1-50 and it only gets worse each expansion as the level cap goes up and abilities are removed/added with the focus always being max level (Healer gameplay during MSQ is a whole other can of worms). When I think of Final Fantasy game I think about incredible cutscenes but at the same time the gameplay is fun and challenging. The problem is we are only getting one part of it, and it almost seems like the devs know gameplay while leveling isn't great so they keep focusing harder and harder on the story part and we lose out more and more on the gameplay.

Thats like taking Lord of the Rings and just hand them the final chapters of Return of the King...they wont have a single idea what the hell is going on. The story elements of ALL the expacs are part and parcel of Endwalker..the idea itself is utterly ludicrous.

Seriously, I ask you, when you buy a brand new book, do you then flip to the end and read the last few pages? Buy a mystery book and then flip to the end to see whodunit?

I'm not saying it is mandatory at all. The story is still there for those who want to play through it. Hell put a notice that you will be missing context of the story if you skip it and also point them to the NG+ feature if they want to go back and see it all later. The point I am making is that it would be nice to have the option for new players who just want to do endgame things with friends or just want to play all the new stuff to have that option instead of forcing them into hundreds of hours of story that may burn them out and make them want to quit.

[VelKallor]

The point I am making is that it would be nice to have the option for new players who just want to do endgame things with friends or just want to play all the new stuff to have that option instead of forcing them into hundreds of hours of story that may burn them out and make them want to quit.

..who will then realise that this isnt WOW and now they have missed out on a lot. BTW new game plus again doesnt include all content or instances. Not by a long shot.

BTW after they buy the skip...they will be asking "why are we fighting this guy? Who is he? Who is Hydaelyn? Why are we fighting her?. Who is Zenos? Who is Fandaniel? They wont have the slightest idea what the hell they are doing there , will be in there for 'shinies"...whose appeal will be shortlived after they realise that the questions they are asking?

Is in the story they bypassed.

FF 14 is not rush to max level and IMO should never be..incidentally, I was just given another reason why thats a bad idea.

A new player that has not done the story, or any previous instances , hasnt even TRIED the class they skipped on, will have ZERO idea on how to play their class at max level.

Isnt that something this forum has been CONTINUALLY whining about? That people cant play "optimally'?

True or false.

A brand new player that has skipped to max level wont have the slightest idea on how to play the class, how to use combos, what the spells even mean...and then they want to take said player into Aglaia? They will be bewildered by all the skills and abilities, wot be able to meld or repair their own gear, wont know what the right stats are, wont know how to craft or how to repair using dark matter, will have zero idea how to cope in a level 90 instance...hell they wont even know what a positional is.

Thats a good idea?

Ask Quin69..LMAO....

[Amenara]

..who will then realise that this isnt WOW and now they have missed out on a lot. BTW new game plus again doesnt include all content or instances. Not by a long shot.

BTW after they buy the skip...they will be asking "why are we fighting this guy? Who is he? Who is Hydaelyn? Why are we fighting her?. Who is Zenos? Who is Fandaniel? They wont have the slightest idea what the hell they are doing there , will be in there for 'shinies"...whose appeal will be shortlived after they realise that the questions they are asking?

Is in the story they bypassed.

FF 14 is not rush to max level and IMO should never be..incidentally, I was just given another reason why thats a bad idea.

A new player that has not done the story, or any previous instances , hasnt even TRIED the class they skipped on, will have ZERO idea on how to play their class at max level.

Isnt that something this forum has been CONTINUALLY whining about? That people cant play "optimally'?

True or false.

A brand new player that has skipped to max level wont have the slightest idea on how to play the class, how to use combos, what the spells even mean...and then they want to take said player into Aglaia? They will be bewildered by all the skills and abilities, wot be able to meld or repair their own gear, wont know what the right stats are, wont know how to craft or how to repair using dark matter, will have zero idea how to cope in a level 90 instance...hell they wont even know what a positional is.

Thats a good idea?

No it isnt.

The story doesn't do anything to teach you how to play your class. Even better with all of the MSQ dungeons being able to be soloed it will be that much easier to make it to level cap without having a clue on how to play your job as the game carries you to the end. As for not understanding anything for the story, every cutscene is skippable, if you don't care about doing the story there is nothing stopping you now from still not caring about the story and skipping everything. The idea I am saying is just skipping those two steps and letting people hop into more current content if they so choose to, with that explicit warning that you will miss out on the story and you should take time to learn the job akin to how the job boosts now tell you that you should learn to play the job. NG+ will give you more than enough to understand what is happening in the story if you choose to go back and do it after a skip.

I don't want the skip to be mandatory, I just would like new players to have an option to hop into the "Newfound Adventure" to catch up in 7.0 if they so choose to.

[Rulakir]

The ARR experience is abysmal as a whole. It's easily the worst starting experience I've had in any MMO and I'm amazed they manage any player retention. I had quit FFXIV the first time playing it at launch and the second time I had to brute force my way through it, I was ready to tap out at Titan. It also took me a month to get through because I'd rather do just about anything but the ARR MSQ and most of the jobs sub-50 aren't fun to play. It's a huge time sink with little reward other than knowing eventually it gets better. (Disclaimer: My subjective opinion. :P)

[Theodric]

Given that World of Warcraft had an impressive total of ten million active players back in the days of its second expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, I think that plays into the 'healthy balance' I mentioned earlier.

The game going off the deep end later on in its life cycle does not negate the fact that it managed to please a lot of players with content that wasn't painstakingly hard but also not so mind numbingly easy that it risked putting some of us to sleep.

I'd definitely appreciate more opportunities to explore and engage with the overworld instead of having most of my chances at combat being hidden away in instances.

I also don't really raid much in this game at a higher level, simply because nothing in this game has managed to quite hit the same level of 'awe inspiring' as the likes of Abelshrud in Lost Ark or Black Temple/Karazhan/Sunwell Plateau in World of Warcraft. So having most of the content I partake in be so...simple is a bit boring, really.

[Jojoya]

The MSQ will never be removed..not to mention the fact that doing so would be a massive insult to all the staff who worked their rears off to give us this content. One of WOWS most MASSIVE blunders was gutting the story to rush to endgame...so id rather not see us mimic a game whose developers have given new meaning to the words abject failure.

It's not going to be removed but SE is also working on a way for new characters to start with newer content (without buying a skip) instead of having to start all the way back at ARR.

They have been listening to the feedback left by many that it's hard to convince friends to give the game a try when there's about 300 hours of story content to complete before they're caught up. NG+ (or creating a new character) will be there for those who decide they want to see the 2.0-6.0 story.

I imagine new characters will eventually have multiple starting points to choose from, with their character's initial level appropriate to their starting point. Hopefully Hall of the Novice gets reworked so the truly new players get some additional training about group content before they're dumped into a point in the MSQ that players are generally expected to know what they're doing.

Or perhaps SE creates an abbreviate starting experience with accelerated leveling to teach all that. Get to 90 in about the same amount of time (or less) that it takes to get through the level 1-24 MSQ. That's still a fair amount of time to learn "adventuring basics" without being an overwhelming amount to catch up to friends.

[VelKallor]

The story doesn't do anything to teach you how to play your class.

Neither does boosting a brand new player to 90 with no experience of the class they are playing. Your point is?

Even better with all of the MSQ dungeons being able to be soloed it will be that much easier to make it to level cap without having a clue on how to play your job as the game carries you to the end

Um no....I hate to be the one to tell you this but anything after 70 cant be soloed. Mechanics require at least two.

Try to solo Malikahs Well? Good LUCK with that.

. As for not understanding anything for the story, every cutscene is skippable, if you don't care about doing the story there is nothing stopping you now from still not caring about the story and skipping everything. The idea I am saying is just skipping those two steps and letting people hop into more current content if they so choose to, with that explicit warning that you will miss out on the story and you should take time to learn the job akin to how the job boosts now tell you that you should learn to play the job. NG+ will give you more than enough to understand what is happening in the story if you choose to go back and do it after a skip.

NG plus doesnt cover all content. Try Omega for example....Rabanastre? Wanna do Bozja? Cant until you do Ivalice, and Ivalice isnt in NG plus. Neither is Werlyt.

I don't want the skip to be mandatory, I just would like new players to have an option to hop into the "Newfound Adventure" to catch up in 7.0 if they so choose to.

The issue with being able to play their class even at a basic level remains.

[Amenara]

Neither does boosting a brand new player to 90 with no experience of the class they are playing. Your point is?

My point is that if the MSQ doesn't teach you how to play your class, why does it matter if someone is allowed to skip it if they want to.

Um no....I hate to be the one to tell you this but anything after 70 cant be soloed. Mechanics require at least two.

Try to solo Malikahs Well? Good LUCK with that.

Hard to tell if you are trolling here or not. Trusts exist. Trusts will soon exist for every MSQ dungeon to level cap. I imagine trials will follow soon after.

NG plus doesnt cover all content. Try Omega for example....Rabanastre? Wanna do Bozja? Cant until you do Ivalice, and Ivalice isnt in NG plus. Neither is Werlyt.

Side content requires you to go outside of the MSQ to do it? That is how it currently is as well with the exception of the Crystal Tower alliance raid.

The issue with being able to play their class even at a basic level remains.

And that is an issue that Jojoya talked about with having specialized areas to teach you how to play your job when you boost it or just in general when you are playing a job.