Why does everyone complain about STORY based MMO's?

[Striker44]

Oh, Striker why must you spurn me like this?

Umm...oops?

Once again, I must humbly request that you either provide proof that one of us has declared ourselves Ultimate Arbiters of Morality or modify thy catchphrase. It's beginning to grate and contributes naught to the discussion at hand.

All the more reason to continue using it! Seriously, though, just the name of that one infamous thread with the "what's the point of that quite lackluster story" etc. is exactly it. It's declaring the quality of the story as if it's a fact, when it's an opinion (and an opinion shared by a minuscule minority of the playerbase at that!). It would be just as messed up if someone made a thread like "Why EW is the greatest xpac of all time"...that would also be an opinion masquerading as a fact.

But you don't see that version as much. The people who praise the game note it's their opinion. Heck, we just got a new thread today called "In Endwalker I loved..."; it's all about people mentioning the things they personally enjoyed. Nobody is claiming to have any objective say over the narrative, just giving their (positive) opinions.

Heck, even in the thread noting the growth in FFXIV due to EW this past year, you have comments like "I'd like to see quality go up" and "Not much of a 'conspiracy' when the opening post is derogatory and dismissive of absolutely any criticism towards the game whatsoever." (note: it wasn't any of those things). I feel sorry for the people who are so sad they can't even stand the thought that other people might be happy.

[aveyond-dreams]

I shouldn’t need to put “this is my opinion” in front of every sentence in order for my posts to be interpreted in the intended manner. Continuing to focus on this aspect does not contribute to meaningful discussions. In any case, I would like to see a better quality main story moving forward than what we saw in Endwalker, which left me and many others disappointed.

[ASkellington]

Out of curiosity, where do you think the game is missing out on the RPG side of things?

I'm going to assume you mean from the perspective of an MMORPG player so I'll answer as such.

My post already said what my issues are with FFXIV, but I'll go in detail here:

1. Lack luster mid to hardcore content design
2. FFXIV being a Trinity MMORPG (which it is since tank/healers are required) and treating said roles abysmally
3. Job design

I'll start with 2 and 3 first. This is something many MMOs admittedly suffer with. I had issues with GW2's and ESO's job designs as well. The difference with the latter vs. FFXIV is that XIV IS a trinity MMO. It is designed to have dedicated healers and tanks. You CAN heal/tank in ESO/GW2 but they are not required if you build correctly and in there you're more of a support anyway

FFXIV is better compared to WoW since it also is a Trinity MMO. And they do their tanks/healers so much better. Healers have more defined styles of healing. There is a healer that is strictly HoT based. There's one that heals by damage etc. AST/WHM and SGE/SCH pretty much heal the same way below 50. (I can't speak for tanks because I don't main tank in MMOs)

To me as an MMO player that is ridiculous and I don't understand why FFXIV isn't heavily critisized for it more. That is text book bad class/job design to me. Your jobs should feel different WELL BY lv50.


As for 1. Well here's hoping Criterion Dungeons fit the midcore feel because current dungeons do not. I would be fine with this if problems 2 and 3 didn't exist OR if there was harder content for me to be challenged as my chosen role (healer). There isn't.

Go to the healer forum. There are a slew of complaints as to why the current dungeon/raid/EX/savage/ultimate combat designs don't do this. But to put it simply:

There are 0 mechanics specifically for tanks/healers that test their knowledge of their job to get them to improve. Most of EX/Savage/Ultimate don't have heal checks. There's not many tank swaps. There's barely enough healing for ONE healer in these contents let alone two and some of these have had these issues UPON RELEASE.

Now. I will be 100% fair by saying that for SE to tune even Ultimate to how many healing tools 2 healers have at 90 is absurd. That said, they do need to fix the glaring issue of job design for healers and probably tanks as well as well as better tune high end content if MSQ dungeons are to remain as they are.

These are the things I judge MMOs heavily for.

1. If they have a dedicated healing/support role/class.
2. If said role/class is fun.
3. If roles/classes across the board are unique and fun to play for the style of player it is trying to advertise to.
4. If dungeon and/or raid content (or equivilants) are fun for my chosen role (usually healer).

And FFXIV isn't unique to this. I've looked at ESO (actually played it) and got fed up with how things were done there. So I left. It was clearly not meant for me.

I've done the same to GW2 and while I have a little bit of hope things will improve there with some of the balance changes they have made... it likely isn't my MMO home either.

There are many things I like about FFXIV. I do think some classes are fun to play. I do find the story to be overall enjoyable even if I disliked SB's and Post ARR's pacing and half of EW. It is likely not my MMO home. By that same token however, they could improve some things TO make it my home. And I cannot fathom why they don't.

Because you cannot sit there and tell me starting out as a lv1 CNJ and playing through the MSQ solo content from 1-90 ARR to EW as a healer is enjoyable and that when SE is supposed to be focused more on that experience the healing role is "okay" because you can pick any other role instead to MSQ with. How in the seven hells is that fair?

[Amenara]

I don't have a problem with story based MMOs, my problem is story based MMOs with little gameplay and when that little gameplay is just not good. Another problem I have is when you gate job progression behind completing a slog of story because you don't go back and redo the job quests for 50-60 to not require you to complete 80 quests in the MSQ to unlock those skills while you continue to level.

[TaleraRistain]

I shouldn’t need to put “this is my opinion” in front of every sentence in order for my posts to be interpreted in the intended manner. Continuing to focus on this aspect does not contribute to meaningful discussions. In any case, I would like to see a better quality main story moving forward than what we saw in Endwalker, which left me and many others disappointed.

Yes, you do. You absolutely do. You nearly always come in with declarative statements that you claim are objective fact when they are completely subjective. They are based on just your opinion and you act rude and dismissive or holier-than-thou when someone has a differing opinion. Trying using that statement when you want to declare your take on something and I guarantee you'll find a much more receptive audience. Even just your usage here of "I would like to see" is leagues better, because you are making it clear that the viewpoint is personal to you and you're not trying to apply it to others or judge others who don't feel the same.

[Gararr]

Now. I will be 100% fair by saying that for SE to tune even Ultimate to how many healing tools 2 healers have at 90 is absurd.

This is a result of SE oversimplified healers but also NEEDING to give healers X# of buttons every expansion. They keep padding it out by constantly removing skills to give back to healers in new forms (Divine Veil > Largesse > Wings) and because of it the healer kit becomes more and more heal heavy while they do nothing to make the actual game play loop more interesting.

[VelKallor]

If this was the intended result, boy howdy did half the fanbase not perceive it that way.

"Half the fanbase"?

I shouldn’t need to put “this is my opinion” in front of every sentence in order for my posts to be interpreted in the intended manner. Continuing to focus on this aspect does not contribute to meaningful discussions. In any case, I would like to see a better quality main story moving forward than what we saw in Endwalker, which left me and many others disappointed.

..and that "many" is..who exactly?

[ASkellington]

This is a result of SE oversimplified healers but also NEEDING to give healers X# of buttons every expansion. They keep padding it out by constantly removing skills to give back to healers in new forms (Divine Veil > Largesse > Wings) and because of it the healer kit becomes more and more heal heavy while they do nothing to make the actual game play loop more interesting.

Weeeeelllllll yes. Healer kit is bloated with healing. Quite a few abilities can and should be pruned.

What I think also harms healers (and classes in general tbh) is lack of resource management (mp/tp/rage/something that uses X in order to use said ability so there is a limit on how often you can use it) and short CDs.

All Most oGCDs for healers cost 0 mana which... why? Like seriously. We have a huge mana bar we ain't using. I swear only BLM/RDM(?) even feels mp dropping and any phys job outside of DRK doesn't even touch it.

Even if you didn't want to make mana a mechanic outside of raises... our oGCDs are way too powerful for a measly 60s CD. I KNOW WHMs want Bene to be 2min instead of 3, but outside of FFXIV Bene is properly balanced. Its an oGCD skill that heals to full no matter WHAT.

Think about that. In a game like WoW where you could have hundreds of thousands of health? Damn thing would be like every 4-6min lmao.

Reducing how many heals we have (replacing them with themed dps/support options) and fixing the CDs so they don't line up for every raidwide/tankbuster would be a simple fix for some things. Not all mind you but some.

Edit: I should also clarify that I do not equate job gauge as a resource. At least with how XIV does it. TP is closer to what I mean. Going back to WoW for example DK (deathknight) used... oh hells I don't even remember what it was called was it Runes back in WotLK?, warrior used rage, rogue used energy? gods its been forever.

Yeah a few classes build up their mp/tp equivilant, but some had a set amount like Mana that regened over time. That's more inline of what I mean.

[aveyond-dreams]

I enjoy having powerful heals that don't have long cooldowns. I just wish that enemies would do powerful attacks to justify needing to use them. That's how I would go about fulfilling the healer fantasy anyway. Make the healer feel like they have a meaningful impact over the course of the battle.

[Rolder50]

You can have story content while also having combat that isn't boring as sin. Really wish they would add more combat encounters to the MSQ, don't enjoy it being a glorified visual novel.