MSQ Difficulty and Exclusion

[Eraden]

I've seen this tactic used elsewhere by some in the "Make the game harder for everyone!" crowd (not all do this, but some do) - try and redirect and turn discussions into attacks on ppl opposed to forced harder difficulty, especially when the majority of response to the calls for forced difficulty rises has been negative.

What I see getting the most positive response to is something I mentioned before - ways of adding in optional / opt-in difficulty for those who want it, while leaving the easier content there for those who want it.

I like your approach to this issue, Kamatsu. I certainly would have no problems with SE adding an optional harder level for the better players.

[aveyond-dreams]

While I admittedly haven't had the time to read each post in this thread, I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm not sure that making MSQ content easier in order to not exclude older players is a good thing. Why would someone in their late teens or early 20s want to play a game that was also designed to accommodate for the reaction times of someone significantly older? I do think that having a set target demographic in terms of age is a good thing, especially in terms of difficulty level.

Difficulty is also indeed capable of being measured objectively by way of damage output and attack speed/frequency. There should be a good balance of both in order to make sure that content is fun and engaging. Again, it is probably to the game's benefit to tailor these aspects around a young adult demographic while providing the necessary accessibility tools in order to account for disabled players within that age range (text size, color options, and so on).

[Deveryn]

While I admittedly haven't had the time to read each post in this thread, I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm not sure that making MSQ content easier in order to not exclude older players is a good thing. Why would someone in their late teens or early 20s want to play a game that was also designed to accommodate for the reaction times of someone significantly older? I do think that having a set target demographic in terms of age is a good thing, especially in terms of difficulty level.

Difficulty is also indeed capable of being measured objectively by way of damage output and attack speed/frequency. There should be a good balance of both in order to make sure that content is fun and engaging. Again, it is probably to the game's benefit to tailor these aspects around a young adult demographic while providing the necessary accessibility tools in order to account for disabled players within that age range (text size, color options, and so on).

You should look into the actual demographic for MMOs. It's very short sighted to assume they need to cater to teens. The younger they are, the less likely they are to play and stick around. Even in the early days, it wasn't limited to teens. EQ1 likely has the oldest population with people playing into their 70s.

When I talk about reaction time, I'm talking more about ping, not age. Don't doubt that anyone older can still have decent reaction time if they've been engaging with computers for years.

[Ilisidi]

so for players who do like to optimize and challenge themselves, they're cut off from enjoying a majority of the content in the game.

That's a minuscle part of the player base, they majority of the people who play hard content just look up the one true rotation, the proven and true guides for the fights and then just use automatic assistance to get told what they are doing wrong or outright helped during the fight.

The miraculous "but you could do it in Excel" is often brought up, but how often do people actually go that hard and tedious way instead of just the easy and lazy way.

You made the hard parts of the game easy for yourself because hard was too hard, now don't come and cry for the easy parts of the game to bmade harder.


And the teens aren't the ones with the nice big budget to spend on the game.

[Mosha]

That's a minuscle part of the player base, they majority of the people who play hard content just look up the one true rotation, the proven and true guides for the fights and then just use automatic assistance to get told what they are doing wrong or outright helped during the fight.

The miraculous "but you could do it in Excel" is often brought up, but how often do people actually go that hard and tedious way instead of just the easy and lazy way.

You made the hard parts of the game easy for yourself because hard was too hard, now don't come and cry for the easy parts of the game to bmade harder.


And the teens aren't the ones with the nice big budget to spend on the game.

that's kind of inevitable people tend to optimize and then streamline pretty much everything and anything to make things more efficient and easy. that isn't even a community thing but a human one.

[Ilisidi]

And the game should not be tuned for those people that streamline and optimize outside of the game's parameters and the info you're supposed to have versus the information you are supposed not to have.

Petition SE to spend money opening a World designed purely for the hardcore.

Access to be subscribed to via Mog Station. If it's not profitable on its own, it gets turned off. You are asking for a large amount of development and tester team time that does not benefit the main game and wild even detract resources from it

[Mosha]

And the game should not be tuned for those people that streamline and optimize outside of the game's parameters

What does that even mean? exploits like Urgamax?

the info you're supposed to have versus the information you are supposed not to have.

I mean ACT just pulls from the log file what can be read under the battle tab. yes, you can dump it into excel and make a parser that way

[VelKallor]

While I admittedly haven't had the time to read each post in this thread, I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm not sure that making MSQ content easier in order to not exclude older players is a good thing. Why would someone in their late teens or early 20s want to play a game that was also designed to accommodate for the reaction times of someone significantly older? I do think that having a set target demographic in terms of age is a good thing, especially in terms of difficulty level.

The average gamer is now in their 30's. Older in fact. Age demographics now point to gamers being well over that age, with a SIGNIFICANT percentage well into their 40's. No games company in the modern age anywhere wants to target a specific age demographic, as thats a fast way to bankruptcy.

Niche gaming has a very small window of success.

Games engineered for teens is old, outdated, is again the same idiot model Blizzard is using.,.and we can all see where THAT has gotten them. You really have zero idea as to how games are designed and quite frankly, the fact that you didnt know that the age demographic worldwide now caters to that older age bracket is in itself telling of how little you actually know. Many games do gather data, some dont where the age demographic is concerned.

Games companies are well aware of just how radically the entire industry has evolved, and are making changes to core design to take advantage of that fact. They HAVE to. game that caters to a very small demographic will have a small playerbase and a small revenue stream, which wont even BEGIN to recoup the costs of developing said game.

Fact: Demographics drive game design philosophy.

I know Blizzard doesnt, I am not sure if SE does but it would surprise me if they didnt have at least a ballpark estimate...see, Aveyond, I used to alpha and beta test for games companies...and not being an expert of course, i had a very good look at the complexities of MMO design

Dont believe me? "Oh he is making this up"

https://financesonline.com/video-gam...ic-statistics/

and here

There are 3.24 billion gamers across the world.
The average gamer is 35 years old.
50% of Europeans play video games.
Over 1.7 billion people are PC gamers.
46% of American gamers are female.
Asia is the biggest gaming market, with 1.48 billion video game players.

More precisely, 14% of all gamers are between 35 and 44, and 12% are between 45 and 54. Even people over 65 play games.

So, if you think that someone who is 40 years old is too old to play games, think twice.

..and you want SE to design a game to EXCLUDE that age group?

How much research into the gaming industry have you actually done?

Difficulty is also indeed capable of being measured objectively by way of damage output and attack speed/frequency. There should be a good balance of both in order to make sure that content is fun and engaging. Again, it is probably to the game's benefit to tailor these aspects around a young adult demographic while providing the necessary accessibility tools in order to account for disabled players within that age range (text size, color options, and so on).

You are so far wrong it isnt funny. This is 2022, not 2004.

The days of MMO and other gaming being for pimply faced teenies is dead and gone.

Games companies, design paradigms and parameters, content availability and accessibility have evolved to meet that market. To paraphrase from older times..adapt or perish.

Kids dont pay $100.00 for a new Nier game, adults over 30 do. Games today arent even themed for teens, with a VAST amount of that content adult oriented...one of the most graphic examples being at the beginning of Shadowbringers.

Tesleen's fate.

Games are not for teens exclusively anymore, games are catered to, targeted and marketed for the adult population, and will continue to do so. FF 14 is a story based game, the MSQ is not meant to be, is not designed to be, and never will be meant to be a continual brick wall where "only the worthy" get to see it...nor should it ever be so.

I submit you really are woefully uninformed as to what the industry is these days, I seriously suggest you go find out.

[Mosha]

The average gamer is now in their 30's. Older in fact. Age demographics now point to gamers being well over that age, with a SIGNIFICANT percentage well into their 40's. No games company in the modern age anywhere wants to target a specific age demographic, as thats a fast way to bankruptcy.

Niche gaming has a very small window of success.

Games engineered for teens is old, outdated, is again the same idiot model Blizzard is using.,.and we can all see where THAT has gotten them. You really have zero idea as to how games are designed and quite frankly, the fact that you didnt know that the age demographic worldwide now caters to that older age bracket is in itself telling of how little you actually know. Many games do, some dont where the age demographic data is gathered, I know Blizzard doesnt, I am not sure if SE does but it would surprise me if they didnt have at least a ballpark estimate...see, Aveyond, I used to alpha and beta test for games companies...and not being an expert of course, i had a very good look at the complexities of MMO design

Doint believe me?

https://financesonline.com/video-gam...ic-statistics/

and here



..and you want SE to design a game to EXCLUDE that age group? How much research into the gaming industry have you actually done?



You are so far wrong it isnt funny. This is 2022, not 2004.

The days of MMO and other gaming being for pimply faced teenies is dead and gone. Games companies, design paradigms and parameters, content availability and accessibility have evolved to meet that market. To paraphrase from older times..adapt or perish.

I don't think using those statistics is a good idea since they're very broad and include smartphone and Facebook-type games in the data, what wouldn't be relevant to games like FFXIV since it's a lot more niche than those statistics cover?

What those statistics tell me is that FFXIV should be a mobile game with heavy MTX to attract the largest demographic possible. I don't think you're advocating for that.

[aveyond-dreams]

All I want is for the MSQ to be a bit more challenging and engaging closer like how it used to be, thanks.