MSQ Difficulty and Exclusion

[Hurlstone]

Hmm… on the one hand, I do sometimes think the MSQ could be a bit more challenging. Job quests seem rather harder (Looking at you SAM) though that may depend on if you over gear by the end of the questline. On the other, I can understand why they do not wish to make it too hard or much of a hindrance. Some people play simply for the story (Which there is ALOT off in this game!) and do not care as much for the challenge or endgame cycle, or wish to concentrate on crafting side and not so much combat. I do not thinka slight boost in difficulty would hurt much, but personally I think its better to have a game thats more on the easy side, then overly difficult. Less off-puting to the higher amount of players I would say.

Of course people will say that its better if a balance is achieved, but I think that may be impossible. As others have said, difficult is subjective. I do not think I have ever played a MMO that has not had complaints that its level/story is ‘Too easy!’ or ‘Too hard!’ over my lifetime. Plus, people have differing levels of skill and sometimes do not get the hang of things as quick as others. I often think its rather unfair how sometimes the game or its roles are declared to be too easy, even at endgame.

I have always thought it would be neat if a higher difficulty option would be added to New Game+. Perhaps with some cool cosmetics as regards to show off. Also have to say I really like the idea of Duty Support, not just because it allows more people to play solo. I hate having to watch or read up tactics in a battle before being force to do them with groups of others where messing up could effect everyone. It kinda spoils the experience sometimes. Now you can see the mechanics at your own pace as you experience the story blind, and learn them by actually playing the Dungeons rather then reading or watching someone else.

[technole]

Leveling trials are always going to be 'harder' because of the level+gear cap. Like Susano NM will still one-shot or at-best nearly kill a tank with less than ideal gear and not hitting a cooldown. I love that, these please use your skills things shouldn't be reserved for end level or extremes.

Titania NM and the DPS check. Was similar to Ravana NM. Back then seeing 4-5 swords and dying to the transition was a thing.

Another reason trials gotten much easier, they would put newer battle directors on these fights. So the perspectives change, but it also aligned to YoshiP's belief on accessibility, as extremes got toned down in difficulty quite a bit starting with Sophia.

[Jojoya]

Lately however it feels that main story content just isn’t really at the level where it used to be, and there are very little ways in which the player’s combat skill is checked and assessed in ways not reliant on team gameplay. This has the effect of widening the gap between players who are ready for more difficult content like EX or Savages and those who are not. At the end of the day I think it would be more beneficial to increase the difficulty of MSQ battle content (dungeons, trials, instanced battles) in order to provide an experience that leans less toward the easy side and more of a well-rounded approach. While some players may feel left behind by such a decision, I do think it would be in the interest of the majority to try and find a better balance than what we’ve been seeing nowadays.

You're assuming that most players care about doing EX and Savage when it's current. I doubt that's true.

SE is only going to lose money if they redo how MSQ content is balanced to make it more difficult. That's not going to benefit anyone if that means they have to start cutting down on content produced.

If there's a skill gap that's causing problems in EX/Savage because too many players are trying to get into groups even though they're not ready for the content then SE needs to add in new content that would help to bridge the gap rather than change the MSQ, which is intended to be story mode for casual players..

[Deveryn]

If there's a skill gap that's causing problems in EX/Savage because too many players are trying to get into groups even though they're not ready for the content then SE needs to add in new content that would help to bridge the gap rather than change the MSQ, which is intended to be story mode for casual players..

I feel like we already have a good bridge with the quality video guides that are out there. Unfortunately, people don't want to do a little studying beforehand.

[Jojoya]

I feel like we already have a good bridge with the quality video guides that are out there. Unfortunately, people don't want to do a little studying beforehand.

You can hand a novice piano player the sheet music for a complicated piano piece to study. They still aren't going to be able to play it because they haven't developed the skill.

Guides aren't bridges because they don't provide a place to practice the intermediate skills that need to be mastered.

I think what people are practically saying when they say they want MSQ content to be harder is not that we want light rampart or limit cut in MSQ, but just everything should hurt a bit more and healing to be more demanding.

There's a point when skill caps are reached and a player will not be able to perform any better than they already are. Increasing the skill cap for MSQ would prevent players who have reached their cap from continuing with the rest of the game even though they never had intent to participate in EX/Savage/Ultimate.

Or were you expecting the players who are demanding that the content be more difficult to carry those players through that content?

That is why the higher difficulty content gets added as side content. So players of varying skill levels can enjoy the story content while players looking for greater challenge can get that through the side content.

At a time when SE is improving accessibility to the MSQ for players who have issues with group content, do you honestly believe they're going to increase skill cap on the MSQ?

[Mosha]

You can hand a novice piano player the sheet music for a complicated piano piece to study. They still aren't going to be able to play it because they haven't developed the skill.

Guides aren't bridges because they don't provide a place to practice the intermediate skills that need to be mastered.


There's a point when skill caps are reached and a player will not be able to perform any better than they already are. Increasing the skill cap for MSQ would prevent players who have reached their cap from continuing with the rest of the game even though they never had intent to participate in EX/Savage/Ultimate.

Or were you expecting the players who are demanding that the content be more difficult to carry those players through that content?

That is why the higher difficulty content gets added as side content. So players of varying skill levels can enjoy the story content while players looking for greater challenge can get that through the side content.

At a time when SE is improving accessibility to the MSQ for players who have issues with group content, do you honestly believe they're going to increase skill cap on the MSQ?

I honestly don't think the playerbase is so inept that raising difficulty a tad, so you have to respect content in nm is going to cause a huge apocalyptic crisis. i just want the tankbuster to hurt my dood.

[Mikey_R]

There's a point when skill caps are reached and a player will not be able to perform any better than they already are. Increasing the skill cap for MSQ would prevent players who have reached their cap from continuing with the rest of the game even though they never had intent to participate in EX/Savage/Ultimate.

The question I ask is, who determines the skill cap for the MSQ?

Let's get down to the nitty gritty. FFXIV's MSQ does already have a difficulty curve. You cannot say Sastasha is the same difficulty as The Keeper of the Lake, to give an extreme example. You can start comparing to other endgame dungeons, Baelsar's Wall, Ghimlyt Dark, Pagalth'an, The Dead Ends or any other dungeon you want really. While there might be some anomalies, the general trend is that the difficulty rises, it might not be by much, but it does.

With this said, there has been someone who has already posted in this topic saying that, due to personal restrictions, they struggle to get past certain bosses. I believe this person has also said they do not want it to be any harder (correct me if I am wrong), however, what about the person that cannot get to that point? They aren't skilled enough to get past that certain solo duty, even on very easy that they have been walled off from the rest of the MSQ. Should they not have a say in the difficulty of the game? If they wanted to make the game easier so that they could access the rest of the story, should that be allowed? Even if it means removing all complexity from a dungeon? Yes, it is an extreme point, but if the claim is that the MSQ should be accessible to virtually everyone, then that is the road you need to consider.

I don't remember which topic this next point was from, however I remember reading somewhere that someone could not complete a duty with trusts, so resorted to using the DF to get through. The healer can always res you if you fail and it isn't an instant wipe after all. The thing is, have they bothered to learn the fight or are they just expecting to waltz right on through? Is it fair to get carried through that fight just because you didn't learn from your past mistakes? This is obviously purely a mechanic problem, since DPS doesn't matter in dungeons (except rare cases of very very easy checks). If it is a case that their personal attributes doesn't allow them to clear, should it be made easier to allow them to clear it via trusts?

As with everything, there is a balancing act that needs to be achieved and you are not going to balance it to everyone's tastes. The difficulty curve needs to keep rising, even if it is a very shallow incline but at some point, you are going to leave someone behind.

[Jojoya]

The question I ask is, who determines the skill cap for the MSQ?

The development team, of course. They can see actual player performance. They can tell at what point increasing numbers of players start having trouble progressing.

All we have as players is anecdotal evidence of what the player base as a whole is capable of, and it's natural for us to tend to end up surrounded by others of roughly the same skill level.

Leave it to the developers to make the decision if difficulty should be increased. They know what their goals are for the game and what they want the base difficulty to be.

[Bookie]

i actually find EW dungeons engaging. I think the alliance raid is too easy tho.
but yes casual contents are too easy. I don't think ppl are really that bad but just too lazy to press few more buttons.

[ThaCa]

MSQ dungeons are just set pieces at this point, if the side content doesn't pick up the slack then nothing will.