What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Fiel_Tana]

[Snip] but also trying to fix the mistakes in 6.0 lore.

I had an irrational leap of hope that what they meant by "Main Scenario Revisions" could be steps towards making a few things more neutral (renaming the "Herois" minion and revising certain codex entries for examples) and adding player text options to be able to voice negative / positive / neutral reactions to various places.

Logically I know it's VERY unlikely, but emotionally I can't shake that annoying hope that they could fix it somewhat (without breaking it for those that loved EW). I would gladly New Game+ EW to mentally scrub my mind of the image of my WoL inanely nodding agreement to things I find morally reprehensible. Those little changes wouldn't make the story make any more sense than it does now, but it could go a long way to correcting the cognitive dissonance some experienced.

[Theodric]

You really should try out the Xeno games. And I'm not just talking about -Blade.

I didn't want my list to become too long! I'm hoping to play the other Xeno games at some point - I'm currently playing through Xenoblade Chronicles 3, actually. I've played the first two as well. I'm actually not against JRPG's getting 'hammy' and 'anime', either. FFXIV just has awkward timing for such moments and tends to be very dry outside of that. There's no real flirting between members of the main party, no meaningful banter unless it's a joke at the expense of men, of course.

[Raoabolic]

I didn't want my list to become too long! I'm hoping to play the other Xeno games at some point - I'm currently playing through Xenoblade Chronicles 3, actually. I've played the first two as well. I'm actually not against JRPG's getting 'hammy' and 'anime', either. FFXIV just has awkward timing for such moments and tends to be very dry outside of that. There's no real flirting between members of the main party, no meaningful banter unless it's a joke at the expense of men, of course.

Just a heads up Gears is a different beast compared to Chronicles. Personally I much prefer Gears over Chronicles and Saga which is strange considering it was a small part of a bigger story that you will never know about unless you read the perfect works book. Saga felt like they retried to tell the Gears story again and Chronicles felt like them going, "Eh, those kids like their anime. Let's take beats from the more popular ones!" and then go, "We need in game gambling in our sequel" and next thing I know I was playing a gatcha game trying to find the rare anime blades. At least I got my T-Elos and Kos-Mos blades before I gave up on it, lol.

[Lauront]

I had an irrational leap of hope that what they meant by "Main Scenario Revisions" could be steps towards making a few things more neutral (renaming the "Herois" minion and revising certain codex entries for examples) and adding player text options to be able to voice negative / positive / neutral reactions to various places.

Logically I know it's VERY unlikely, but emotionally I can't shake that annoying hope that they could fix it somewhat (without breaking it for those that loved EW). I would gladly New Game+ EW to mentally scrub my mind of the image of my WoL inanely nodding agreement to things I find morally reprehensible. Those little changes wouldn't make the story make any more sense than it does now, but it could go a long way to correcting the cognitive dissonance some experienced.

Hmmm... I wonder if the revisions aren't related to the MSQ dungeons/trials as they're working on retrofitting those to function with trusts, with completion targeted by 7.0+ for post-HW trials. Granted, it's a vague heading and what little hopium remains within me would like to read it as you've described.

[Rulakir]

They really do need to revise the codex at a minimum. I can only assume that if an in-game character wrote it that it's Krile, Hydaelyn's latest victim/zealot. It's the only plausible excuse. I've seen some people say it's the WoL, in which case #NotMyWoL (my feeling throughout EW).

[ReynTime]

Just a heads up Gears is a different beast compared to Chronicles. Personally I much prefer Gears over Chronicles and Saga which is strange considering it was a small part of a bigger story that you will never know about unless you read the perfect works book. Saga felt like they retried to tell the Gears story again and Chronicles felt like them going, "Eh, those kids like their anime. Let's take beats from the more popular ones!" and then go, "We need in game gambling in our sequel" and next thing I know I was playing a gatcha game trying to find the rare anime blades. At least I got my T-Elos and Kos-Mos blades before I gave up on it, lol.

I disagree with this in parts. Gears is darker, more daring and more mature. But Chronicles 2 aside, they're not any more anime than the more mainstream Square-Enix games, XIV included.

[SentioftheHoukai]

The writing of the Ancients from the phantom Amaurot was so fascinating, well-written, and most importantly, a massive departure from how they were often represented in Endwalker—or rather how the narrative seemed to want you to feel about them. The city not only had people like the Firebrand who argued for celebrating creations who don't meet arbitrary standards, but you also have far more self-conscious ones in the Gentle Amaurotine, who told us eventual stagnation was a very real issue they considered and thought about:



Much of these 'issues' that the Ancients seemed to have not only seemed to be largely conjured up for specifically Endwalker, but they also contradict the image of the society that we came to know before. And yes, I know its easy to say its a result of Emet-selch's rose-tinted glasses, but I honestly think these discussions and issues are too complex to be the result of bias on his part. These Ancients seem reflective of actual people, giving their thoughts about the world they live in. The more you consider people like the ones in this city, the more holes are poked in the idea that they were beyond saving.

You know, you bring up something interesting I've always wondered about myself. In Elpis, Hermes makes a super big deal about the euthanization of all the creations and Elpis itself goes into further detail about how there really is no real way of determining which creation gets a soul. It's all completely random, which the GCBTW loves to bring up as evidence of the Ancient's being objectively wrong and playing God with the lives of those though their lessers and so on and so forth. Anyway, the crux of my inquiry is shunting forth this as inspiration for a further supposition I began to wonder something specific about the Shades in Phantom!Amaurot. So, in Amaurot in that part of the MSQ we discover that Shade!Hyth likely retains a small fragment of his true self. Now, taking into account the revelations we learned in Elpis can we not actually definitively say none of these Amaurotine Shades might also have retained a sliver of themselves? And if so, what holes must this newfound evidence present in the theorem that most of what is presented to you in Phantom!Amaurot is biased info based on Emet-Selch's rose-tinted remembrances of his beloved Amaurotine people? If some or perhaps even all of these shades yet possess a sliver of their original selves, who's to say these thoughts and word aren't their own?

They really do need to revise the codex at a minimum. I can only assume that if an in-game character wrote it that it's Krile, Hydaelyn's latest victim/zealot. It's the only plausible excuse. I've seen some people say it's the WoL, in which case #NotMyWoL (my feeling throughout EW).

It is. Didn't you rrrreeeeeeeeeeead the cutscenes, Rulakir?! You must be a Scenario Skipper if you don't remember the glorious perfection that is Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker word-for-word! Nyeeeeah!

[Vyrerus]

Coincidentally, my favourite JRPG's are those with lasting consequences for the playable cast.

Shadow Hearts
Breath of Fire IV
Grandia II
Suikoden V
Final Fantasy VI
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy X
Final Fantasy XII

Without spoiling anything, although the protagonists ultimately succeeded, their victories were often bittersweet - because they failed meaningfully along the way and faced dire, lasting consequences that extended beyond the occasional minor character perishing along the way.

It's why the whole 'hurr, durr, u must not liek jrpgs111' doesn't mean much to me. I do like them - and I'd like FFXIV to be more like a JRPG instead of a Hollywood movie where there's minimal stakes for the protagonists and the only meaningful, lasting consequences are pushed onto the antagonists.

At this point, it's pretty clear to me that a pattern has been established where the antagonists are fleshed out in their final hours to induce sympathy and 'feels' only to lose absolutely everything or near enough. The game then tries to take that trauma and falsely attribute it to the Scions - but it doesn't work for me (or others here, it would seem) because we've caught on to that trick.

It doesn't help that many of the cutscenes in FFXIV are very stiff and large swathes of the community have outright meltdowns in response to the suggestion that maybe, just maybe, the major Scions or City State leaders could be at risk of being killed off from time to time.

Personally I care more about interesting worldbuilding over individual characters - sure, there are characters I like a lot though if they die? So be it. I just want it to make sense - and sadly, that hasn't been the case with the Ancients due to the utterly bizarre attempt to justify their genocide as a good and necessary thing rather than a complete and utterly monstrous act.

You need to play through Xenogears next. You may have some issue with the translation, but it is saturated with characters who suffer meaningful consequences. As well as a very morally grey main character.

That's right! I'm a coward!

[Raoabolic]

You need to play through Xenogears next. You may have some issue with the translation, but it is saturated with characters who suffer meaningful consequences. As well as a very morally grey main character.

That's right! I'm a coward!

Fei had a bad childhood but Hammer's story and ending was extremely heartbreaking. He just wanted to be strong, like his bro. ;_;

[Rulakir]

Kozh can't post due to being unsubbed, but did this amazing comic of an alternate version of the Mothercrystal trial:

Twitter.

Reddit.

Worth a look just for the artistic skill, but even moreso if you wanted an actual confrontation with Venat instead of a gush fest. :P