What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Teraq]

The horse is deader than the Ancients could ever hope to be.

If only it were. But I wouldn't celebrate so soon – not a mere ten hours away from a continuation of the story that, for all I know, will continue to insist nothing was wrong with what happened.

[Heroman3003]

If only it were. But I wouldn't celebrate so soon – not a mere ten hours away from a continuation of the story that, for all I know, will continue to insist nothing was wrong with what happened.

Considering contents of patch story so far, they haven't insisted on anything over 6.1 or 6.2. The story of the ancients is just over and its very likely that the last we'll see of significant and not just passing focus on the ancients will be in 6.4 with last of Pandaemonium. The story arc around them is over. I think closest we'll get to returning to the topic is if they have one of still-surviving sundered Ascians show up in the story at some point, and even if that happens its almost certain the story of the ancients wont be relevant to whatever they'll be involved in. Nobody is 'insisting' nothing wrong happened in the story itself because the story has accepted that and has simply moved on.

Horse is, in fact, deader than the ancients, and likelyhood of them ever being relevant again past the finale of Pandaemonium is close to 0, so any argument about them is, in fact, just kicking the horse further.

[Teraq]

Considering contents of patch story so far, they haven't insisted on anything over 6.1 or 6.2. The story of the ancients is just over and its very likely that the last we'll see of significant and not just passing focus on the ancients will be in 6.4 with last of Pandaemonium. The story arc around them is over. I think closest we'll get to returning to the topic is if they have one of still-surviving sundered Ascians show up in the story at some point, and even if that happens its almost certain the story of the ancients wont be relevant to whatever they'll be involved in. Nobody is 'insisting' nothing wrong happened in the story itself because the story has accepted that and has simply moved on.

Horse is, in fact, deader than the ancients, and likelyhood of them ever being relevant again past the finale of Pandaemonium is close to 0, so any argument about them is, in fact, just kicking the horse further.

Not even a patch ago we had Venat's crystal turn out not just to be an Apple Tag but a magical cure for Zero, because she's just so good, her blessing will be with us forever. Then we have the Twelve's storyline, likely related to the Ancients as well. Pandaemonium, as you've said, is literally the only story I'm looking forward to, and I'm ready for it to be terrible. Let's not forget Codex entries! How's that forging ahead™ from losing your sister working out for you, Vrtra?

Or how about that Gymnasion description on the 6.3 website? Funny how only the EN version makes the Ancients sound like bored demigods while JP, FR and DE never make any mention of that, instead portraying them as excited to see more of Azem's familiar…

I, in fact, can hardly wait for Ancients to actually stop being relevant. Because any prospect of them being touched any further makes me cringe. And yet I wish this wasn't the case.

[Heroman3003]

Not even a patch ago we had Venat's crystal turn out not just to be an Apple Tag but a magical cure for Zero, because she's just so good, her blessing will be with us forever. Then we have the Twelve's storyline, likely related to the Ancients as well. Pandaemonium, as you've said, is literally the only story I'm looking forward to, and I'm ready for it to be terrible. Let's not forget Codex entries! How's that forging ahead™ from losing your sister working out for you, Vrtra?

Or how about that Gymnasion description on the 6.3 website? Funny how only the EN version makes the Ancients sound like bored demigods while JP, FR and DE never make any mention of that, instead portraying them as excited to see more of Azem's familiar…

I, in fact, can hardly wait for Ancients to actually stop being relevant. Because any prospect of them being touched any further makes me cringe. And yet I wish this wasn't the case.

I doubt Twelve will tie into Ancients any harder than they will into Ascians, as while association with Convocation was mentioned once, I doubt its gonna be elaborated that hard, nor expect any 'it was ancients fault all along' reveals. Crystal being a cure is no surprise, and blessing sticking with us is kinda a very important point because of protection against stuff like tempering and such. Thats not us coming back to ancients storyline in the slightest, as they werent even really mentioned in relation to that. Its just a convinient source of aether.

As for gymnasium, its not tied into any actual story so I'm not really counting that as ancient-related story, and moreso as a way to give Elpis as a location some approprietly unique content.

And ancients will never really truly stop being 'relevant' simply due to role they play in world's mythos, its just that their story arc is over and is unlikely to be revisited in some brand new light or with some brand new reveals. Ancients didnt care about life, got an unfair, yet ironically fitting form of divine retribution, two different ways of fighting against their nihilism were portrayed, they were willing to commit unspeakable crimes against life just for their own gain and had to be stopped, etc etc. We have seen the whole story in light that portrays each character in the ancients' story at their best and at their worst and we'll not get anything beyond that.

[NanaWiloh]

Considering contents of patch story so far, they haven't insisted on anything over 6.1 or 6.2. The story of the ancients is just over and its very likely that the last we'll see of significant and not just passing focus on the ancients will be in 6.4 with last of Pandaemonium. The story arc around them is over. I think closest we'll get to returning to the topic is if they have one of still-surviving sundered Ascians show up in the story at some point, and even if that happens its almost certain the story of the ancients wont be relevant to whatever they'll be involved in. Nobody is 'insisting' nothing wrong happened in the story itself because the story has accepted that and has simply moved on.

Horse is, in fact, deader than the ancients, and likelyhood of them ever being relevant again past the finale of Pandaemonium is close to 0, so any argument about them is, in fact, just kicking the horse further.

There is hole to China where the horse use to be..

[Heroman3003]

There is hole to China where the horse use to be..

I think the hole goes past China all the way to Ultima Thule, looking at this thread's length.

[MikkoAkure]

Issue #5 The story actually is organic. Its real trouble is that it's that it's written by multiple people. Your points about having to adhere to content criteria and formula are spot on, but the story itself is definitely organic.

The story isn’t organic because it needs to adhere to an artificial structure and can’t grow on its own accord. The story is made to fit a frame that fits 6 zones and to accommodate trials and dungeons at set intervals.

It's just, how does anyone write a story over the course of a decade, when the writers themselves only got in charge of it in the middle?

Like, of course the Ascians weren't what they became. The writers changed. Those unnecessary flourishes you talk about had not only completely different ideas behind them, but different minds forming the ideas behind them.

Banri Oda has been responsible for the lore ever since at least ARR, wrote for HW as well, has been on the team since 1.0, was main scenario writer in Stormblood and Shadowbringers, and lead story designer for Endwalker. He’s been there this whole time making the story for the game, but there’s been other faces on the writing team alongside him.

Yoshi-P has also had a hand in the story and has obviously been here this whole time. It was Oda and Yoshi-P who said that they didn’t know what to do with the Ascians from ARR through Stormblood and that the lore for their goals didn’t exist yet and they were just “doing bad stuff”.

Shadowbringers going where it went made them have to write the story for the Ascians. It had nothing to do with new writers or thought experiments.

[MoofiaBossVal]

It's the one year anniversary of the thread. 754 pages and over 7,500 posts! Hopefully the feedback here have been relayed to the devs, though with the people currently in charge of English community management, the lack of any interaction with SE employees on the English forums, and how "surprised" Yoshi-P was at certain questions that seems doubtful. Seeing people unsubbing from the game over the past couple dozen pages... no doubt this game will follow in the same footsteps as WoW and many other subscription MMOs where people become disinterested in the game and leave and their voices go unheard, with the devs only seeing the opinions of the diehard fanboys who stay. You have to be a subscriber to post on these forums after all. Not sure how long I'll stay. The state of the video game industry is abysmal (actually entertainment in general, be it comics or movies or anime). I can count the number of games that came out within the last five years that I was excited for on one hand. And I've just about played almost all of the old games that appealed to me. I own a few games I haven't gotten around to yet but I'm not feeling particularly motivated to play them. Moving closer and closer to the bottom of the barrel here. Only still subbed because FFXIV is one of the very few modern games that vaguely appeals to me. I might just quit gaming altogether and find another hobby.

I really hope things improve with the next expansion, but I'm not holding my breath. That my be my exit point. IDK.

[Carin-Eri]

It's the one year anniversary of the thread. 754 pages and over 7,500 posts! Hopefully the feedback here have been relayed to the devs, though with the people currently in charge of English community management, the lack of any interaction with SE employees on the English forums, and how "surprised" Yoshi-P was at certain questions that seems doubtful. Seeing people unsubbing from the game over the past couple dozen pages... no doubt this game will follow in the same footsteps as WoW and many other subscription MMOs where people become disinterested in the game and leave and their voices go unheard, with the devs only seeing the opinions of the diehard fanboys who stay. You have to be a subscriber to post on these forums after all. Not sure how long I'll stay. The state of the video game industry is abysmal (actually entertainment in general, be it comics or movies or anime). I can count the number of games that came out within the last five years that I was excited for on one hand. And I've just about played almost all of the old games that appealed to me. I own a few games I haven't gotten around to yet but I'm not feeling particularly motivated to play them. Moving closer and closer to the bottom of the barrel here. Only still subbed because FFXIV is one of the very few modern games that vaguely appeals to me. I might just quit gaming altogether and find another hobby.

I really hope things improve with the next expansion, but I'm not holding my breath. That my be my exit point. IDK.

Whilst I see your point, I will say this much. Speaking from experience, at least they're listening at all. Quite a few games in the industry who only understand, or care about, communication made via Credit Card.

[Necrotica]

It's the one year anniversary of the thread. 754 pages and over 7,500 posts! Hopefully the feedback here have been relayed to the devs, though with the people currently in charge of English community management, the lack of any interaction with SE employees on the English forums, and how "surprised" Yoshi-P was at certain questions that seems doubtful. Seeing people unsubbing from the game over the past couple dozen pages... no doubt this game will follow in the same footsteps as WoW and many other subscription MMOs where people become disinterested in the game and leave and their voices go unheard, with the devs only seeing the opinions of the diehard fanboys who stay. You have to be a subscriber to post on these forums after all. Not sure how long I'll stay. The state of the video game industry is abysmal (actually entertainment in general, be it comics or movies or anime). I can count the number of games that came out within the last five years that I was excited for on one hand. And I've just about played almost all of the old games that appealed to me. I own a few games I haven't gotten around to yet but I'm not feeling particularly motivated to play them. Moving closer and closer to the bottom of the barrel here. Only still subbed because FFXIV is one of the very few modern games that vaguely appeals to me. I might just quit gaming altogether and find another hobby.

I really hope things improve with the next expansion, but I'm not holding my breath. That my be my exit point. IDK.

Just because everyone says the story is the most important part of this game, doesn't mean you have to believe it. There are lots of other reasons to play it. And while flawed, I still believe this is the best mmo out for me.
ESO came close but good god the armor and character models are ugly over there.
Hope you can find something else about this game to keep you playing.