What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[CrownySuccubus]

I went over this a few months ago, but I feel like everyone is remembering this scene wrong. There wasn't a "shocked" moment. Our responses were "Oh turn living beings into clothing? Just like that?" and "Won't someone be angry with us for using those creatures?" both responses are given with a blank face and no shock.

I don't think the writers intended for us to go "hmm" there, but at the point where they were making flying wolves that can breathe fire for no better reason than that they could.

I don't agree, simply for this question: why bring attention to it in the first place?

If we, the players, are not meant to see it as a big deal, what is the point of that quest objective and dialogue (aside from padding)? They could have easily had Hyth grab a couple of flowers with the same "aetheric resonances" or whatever, and make your robes that way. What purpose does having the player go out and weaken these pretty butterflies, have Hyth turn them into clothes, and then have the WOL comment on the process serve?

To me, the answer is obvious: to make the Ancients seem "less human". Even if we look at this from a less questionable standpoint of "The WOL was surprised they can do it so efficiently"....who cares? We've known since ShB that all of the Ancients have creation magicks. Even if the goal was to recap this for the players, they could have said, "Oh, that must be the creation magicks I've heard about." But the way the issue is raised in both questions (although, I'd love to see what the original Japanese wording was for the second option) makes it clear that the Ancients are very callous about how they use living things.

Especially given that they basically see the WOL as just a "more complicated" version of the petaloudai, it gives a very "They could do this to you, next" vibe.

[Brinne]

Especially given that they basically see the WOL as just a "more complicated" version of the petaloudai, it gives a very "They could do this to you, next" vibe.

Lol, this echoes almost exactly a conversation I had with tokinokanatae about "what the hell went wrong with Elpis," when she pointed out that the expectation was probably that the player would be uncomfortable and find Elpis "scary" because they should identify with the creations, right? And thus have the question of "oh no, would they just casually unmake me to make a robe because I'm not perfect!?" hanging over their heads and troubling them the whole time they're exploring the area.

Of course, this didn't work out in practice for a number of reasons in both writing and presentation. As I've mentioned before, both Amaurot in Shadowbringers AND Elpis in Endwalker had the exact opposite effect for me - because the Ancients were so clearly human with human idiosyncrasies, but lived in a world they had crafted that didn't have true malice, I felt incredibly safe and comforted in their world, and seeing Ancients be stubborn and frustrated and sometimes at a loss without anything like the Final Days pressing down on them made me think "they'd definitely have room for someone as stubborn and frustrating and confused as I often am! This is great! I want to be here, where I can be myself AND also be safe and surrounded by well-meaning people I can trust!"

[Rulakir]

Of course, this didn't work out in practice for a number of reasons in both writing and presentation.

The writers made the WoL reincarnated Azem. I went into Elpis thinking, "Wow! These are were my BFFs and they're awesome, I love them so much!" Hythlodaeus' monologue about them as a trio got me right in the feels. (I thought the trio returning to the star together was beautiful.) Emet talking about Azem like a schoolboy with a crush was delightful. My being a "familiar" rarely crossed my mind except during times like these:



*gasp* Horrifying! :P

As for the creations, I'd be willing to wager that the amount of thought that went into it was, "Wouldn't it be cool if..?" I sincerely doubt they gave any consideration to the greater implications.

[Vyrerus]

I don't agree, simply for this question: why bring attention to it in the first place?

If we, the players, are not meant to see it as a big deal, what is the point of that quest objective and dialogue (aside from padding)? They could have easily had Hyth grab a couple of flowers with the same "aetheric resonances" or whatever, and make your robes that way. What purpose does having the player go out and weaken these pretty butterflies, have Hyth turn them into clothes, and then have the WOL comment on the process serve?

To me, the answer is obvious: to make the Ancients seem "less human". Even if we look at this from a less questionable standpoint of "The WOL was surprised they can do it so efficiently"....who cares? We've known since ShB that all of the Ancients have creation magicks. Even if the goal was to recap this for the players, they could have said, "Oh, that must be the creation magicks I've heard about." But the way the issue is raised in both questions (although, I'd love to see what the original Japanese wording was for the second option) makes it clear that the Ancients are very callous about how they use living things.

Especially given that they basically see the WOL as just a "more complicated" version of the petaloudai, it gives a very "They could do this to you, next" vibe.

The only real negative read I can get out of that scene is that Hythlodaeus realizes that the butterflies can harm you. Rather than Hythlodaeus purely being charitable, it reads like he's doing a miniature experiment to see if we're even worth the robes they're about to make (particularly when you remember/realize that his job is to judge concepts on final evaluations as head of the BotA).

The real real negative take is in Hyth's next dialogue where he says:

"Oh, it's fine, there's no one around to tell us off. And besides, we can always make more petaloudai. They need only a tiny amount of aether."

It's supposed to read like The Mysterious Stranger coming off as inhuman.



But honestly, even then, it's out of character for the WoL. And the context is all different. Like many attempts at depth in Endwalker, it misses the mark.