We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[RobynDaBank]

Criterion Dungeons are nothing like M+ though, outside of having a Savage difficulty that can only be done with humans.

[Zaniel]

Once I saw this thread jump from 10 pages to 28 I knew the extremists had arrived.

OP: I just want people to play with their hands and not use their feet ...

28 pages later ....

#1: People have the right to afk any time they want mid pull and never press a single button for the whole dungeon in fact there should be no combat in the whole MSQ!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

#2 We should have inbuilt raid loggers and OLE matchmaking for Satasha and Savage prog should be part of the MSQ!!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

[Larirawiel]

Mhhh ... i do not think, that the players will get better in this game. Because 98% of this game are so easy, that it is almost impossible to fail. The game protects you from failing almost everywhere. And if you cannot fail, you do not learn. So, lower your expectations and you will not be disappointed. ^^


Cheers

[Supersnow845]

Once I saw this thread jump from 10 pages to 28 I knew the extremists had arrived.

OP: I just want people to play with their hands and not use their feet ...

28 pages later ....

#1: People have the right to afk any time they want mid pull and never press a single button for the whole dungeon in fact there should be no combat in the whole MSQ!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

#2 We should have inbuilt raid loggers and OLE matchmaking for Satasha and Savage prog should be part of the MSQ!!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

I’ve still yet to see these supposed “anti casual extremist”

About the most extremist take in that direction on this thread is that there should be some kind of match making to split casual players away from higher end players and even that was mostly shoved down by both sides

[Carin-Eri]

No.

Any video game player base isn't some static thing that gains knowledge after X hours of play or X number of levels.

It gets a bit old explaining infinite cycles to people, but all I can suggest is to think deeply on this: For every expert player that retires from this game, you have one that joins with zero MMO experience. Therefore the player base is constantly morphing into something different. Always.

My dude, modern basketball has been around since something like 1890. Does that mean if you head down to the park right now, all the guys on the court should be pros? Does it even mean that the 30-year-old guy that's been shooting mediocre hoops since he was nine should be any better?

No one can assume with any degree of accuracy how another, random person will perform at any chosen sport, including video games. Not at first glance. You do some research on the person, then maybe. But not at first glance.

I, for one, agree. But then I guess I would. As I've said, I'm still not great at the game after eight months of playing. I DO try, but still get flustered trying to understand mechanics and work rotations, I'm still clumsy and slow to react, and it's certainly very rare that I feel that I'm asset to the teams I'm with.

Still, I love the game (particularly the MSQ) regardless of this - and it is disappointing that, judging by some of the comments made in this thread, the answer to the fact that I don't meet the unwritten 'acceptable standard' rule is that I should just quit the game.

[Mikey_R]

Mhhh ... i do not think, that the players will get better in this game. Because 98% of this game are so easy, that it is almost impossible to fail. The game protects you from failing almost everywhere. And if you cannot fail, you do not learn. So, lower your expectations and you will not be disappointed. ^^


Cheers

The problem is, if people fail too much, they complain about the game being too hard. A good example is Shinryu close to SBs launch. It wasn't long before people complained the fight was too hard and they wanted SE to make it easier. Luckily they didn't but this didn't stop people from complaining about it.

The point is, even if they were to make the game harder, people wouldn't get better to compensate, they would just complain it is too hard and this is the mentality that needs to stop.

There is also another observation I would like to make, and whilst it is purely based on what I have witnessed, I'm sure it happens across multiple DCs. If you do a fight within the first few days, people expect you to go in blind, if you wipe, no problems, you tend to discuss what went wrong and how to deal with it, we are all learning after all. However, give it a little while and people start to not listen. You can wipe, someone explain the mechanics and they ignore you. It is a weird shift in mentality which does almost seem close to, I don't want to learn the fight, I want you to carry me through it.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

There is also another observation I would like to make, and whilst it is purely based on what I have witnessed, I'm sure it happens across multiple DCs. If you do a fight within the first few days, people expect you to go in blind, if you wipe, no problems, you tend to discuss what went wrong and how to deal with it, we are all learning after all. However, give it a little while and people start to not listen. You can wipe, someone explain the mechanics and they ignore you. It is a weird shift in mentality which does almost seem close to, I don't want to learn the fight, I want you to carry me through it.

While being anecdotal myself, I also witnessed something similar on where I'm playing. First week of patch implementation has always been the golden period. As time goes by, there goes people's patience against the newcomer AND the newcomer's receptiveness against advices as well. Things like "this fight sucks :/" gets thrown a lot in the chat, sometimes even after being told how to perform certain mechanics.

[Bukachu]

The problem is, if people fail too much, they complain about the game being too hard. A good example is Shinryu close to SBs launch. It wasn't long before people complained the fight was too hard and they wanted SE to make it easier. Luckily they didn't but this didn't stop people from complaining about it.

The point is, even if they were to make the game harder, people wouldn't get better to compensate, they would just complain it is too hard and this is the mentality that needs to stop.

There is also another observation I would like to make, and whilst it is purely based on what I have witnessed, I'm sure it happens across multiple DCs. If you do a fight within the first few days, people expect you to go in blind, if you wipe, no problems, you tend to discuss what went wrong and how to deal with it, we are all learning after all. However, give it a little while and people start to not listen. You can wipe, someone explain the mechanics and they ignore you. It is a weird shift in mentality which does almost seem close to, I don't want to learn the fight, I want you to carry me through it.

Its possible to make game harder without changing any existing content, you just add a new, harder content.

that's it really. people who want harder content will go and do it, people who dont can do lower difficulty content.

[Mikey_R]

I, for one, agree. But then I guess I would. As I've said, I'm still not great at the game after eight months of playing. I DO try, but still get flustered trying to understand mechanics and work rotations, I'm still clumsy and slow to react, and it's certainly very rare that I feel that I'm asset to the teams I'm with.

Still, I love the game (particularly the MSQ) regardless of this - and it is disappointing that, judging by some of the comments made in this thread, the answer to the fact that I don't meet the unwritten 'acceptable standard' rule is that I should just quit the game.

Assuming you play RDM as your profile says, this is what I would consider to be the bare minimum knowledge. You don't hardcast Verthunder2/Veraero2/Impact, you use AoE when there are at least 3 targets and you do utilise your melee combo and finishers, whether that is single target or AOE. For a dungeon, that is it. I don't expect you to always be casting, however, that should be the next thing to work on. Your other oGCDs? Not too bothered, it would be nice if you hit them, even if it isn't optimal, just when you notice it.

I would say that is fairly reasonable. It is the foundation of the RDM rotation after all, this is what everything relies on. If you do find yourself getting flustered over doing your rotation and mechanics, I would suggest going to a striking dummy and hitting it for a while, again, just the basics, and get it into muscle memory. The less you have to think about your rotation, the easier it is going to be to think about mechanics or starting to incorporate your other actions into your rotation.

Hopefully this helps you to get better accustomed to RDM and you will feel more confident going into content and not feeling like a hinderance. Also remember, mistakes do still happen, it was just the other day I accidentally walked off the edge of Endsinger and felt stupid, just laugh it off and learn from it.

[hagare]

And you jumped straight to the assumption that I would say you suck at healing

My first point is that I shouldn’t have to tell you not to spam cure 1 in kistis hyperboa, if you do I’ll let you know respectfully but it should never come to that because as the original message of this post says, we should expect a level of basic competency beyond around the vault

I made no assumption. You said it yourself in your post.