We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[Supersnow845]

Speaking as a former team leader / trainer / supervisor, Ive never needed to 'sugarcoat" anything. Then again, all my coaching sessions have been with the aim of helping a person improve, not using their mistakes to belt them over the head with. More than a few of the people I trained went on to be promoted, which delighted me no end. I didnt care they got promoted above my head, THAT was the proof I had succeeded.

And thats another thing, if you do it in a hostile manner and in front of others, youve just broken a cardinal rule: praise in public, reprimand IN PRIVATE.

Offer to HELP, not criticise. One way gets them to listen to you..one doesnt.



Funny, I can think of any number of approaches that will accomplish that purpose..but then again, I start from a position of respect and basic courtesy. Youd be SHOCKED at what happens when you start a suggestion in a tactful, friendly manner.

I’m sorry but if you go into a high level dungeon without a basic understand of how the game works then you are not respecting or showing basic courtesy to others, people here seem absolutely shocked to learn it’s not experienced players jobs to carry people who don’t understand the foundations while also having to teach them, it’s why I don’t wear a mentor crown, because I honestly don’t believe it should be experienced peoples jobs to carry or train people who can’t read their tooltips

[hagare]

I mean that comes back to the idea of how much should you need to sugarcoat explanations of absolutely fundamental topics

If someone is spamming cure 1 there is only so many nice ways to tell them that they literally have no idea how to to play the game

maybe instead of saying "you suck at healing" you can go with, "hey, using "skill" might be better"
but then again, you jumped straight to "there is only so many nice ways to tell them that they literally have no idea how to to play the game"
I'd say you're the bigger problem

[Supersnow845]

maybe instead of saying "you suck at healing" you can go with, "hey, using "skill" might be better"
but then again, you jumped straight to "there is only so many nice ways to tell them that they literally have no idea how to to play the game"
I'd say you're the bigger problem

And you jumped straight to the assumption that I would say you suck at healing

My first point is that I shouldn’t have to tell you not to spam cure 1 in kistis hyperboa, if you do I’ll let you know respectfully but it should never come to that because as the original message of this post says, we should expect a level of basic competency beyond around the vault

[VelKallor]

I’m sorry but if you go into a high level dungeon without a basic understand of how the game works then you are not respecting or showing basic courtesy to others, people here seem absolutely shocked to learn it’s not experienced players jobs to carry people who don’t understand the foundations while also having to teach them, it’s why I don’t wear a mentor crown, because I honestly don’t believe it should be experienced peoples jobs to carry or train people who can’t read their tooltips

See, thats where you and I part company, because I dont believe there is ever any excuse for anyone to go off in this game on a tirade of abuse, regardless of what you "might feel". Whatever their gameplay is, that STILL doesnt entitle you to scream abuse and berate them.


Ever.

As for "mentor crown", having that crown means you are willing and happy to help others so, yes, with that mentality, I agree, you should never be a mentor. If youi arent willing or think that helping others is "beneath you", then Im glad you arent a mentor too.

[Supersnow845]

See, thats where you and I part company, because I dont believe there is ever any excuse for anyone to go off in this game on a tirade of abuse, regardless of what you "might feel". Whatever their gameplay is, that STILL doesnt entitle you to scream abuse and berate them.

Ever.

Again people tie themselves in knots to defend bad gameplay, now I apparently go on screaming tirades berating others, where did you get that point from, I will ask you respectfully and give you pointers if you are really hampering the group, If not a vote kick might be in order if it’s a high enough level of dungeon

Maybe if people who play poorly spent as much time trying to improve as they do making up imaginary scenarios to be insulted about they may actually improve

[VelKallor]

Again people tie themselves in knots to defend bad gameplay, now I apparently go on screaming tirades berating others, where did you get that point from

All right then, humour me.

What would be YOUR approach to try and help someone? What would you say and how would you say it?

[Supersnow845]

All right then, humour me.

What would be YOUR approach to try and help someone? What would you say and how would you say it?

Let’s take the example the OP used, I would say to the tank “hey just so you know your cool-downs like reprisal, rampart or shadow wall are better used on mobs because mobs do more damage and not using CD’s is stressing the healer”, if that gets no response I’ll repeat it, if either get a negative response or both get no response and the healer is clearly overly stressed I would ask the healer and other DPS if they would consider a vote kick

I’m not going to ever insult a player in game my entire thought process here is I just don’t believe e this should be a conversation that should ever happen because people should understand the basics by about cutters cry at the latest

[VelKallor]

I’m not going to ever insult a player in game my entire thought process here is I just don’t believe this should be a conversation that should ever happen because people should understand the basics by about cutters cry at the latest

Snow....I have worked in dozens of places over the years, far too many to count, and I have seen a qualified accountant pick up a calculator to discover that 2+2 = 4. Seen a CEO not remember how to send a BCC email. Seen a registered NURSE forget to wash her bloody hands.

You get good and bad everywhere, not just ingame...trust me on this.

[Supersnow845]

Snow....I have worked in dozens of places over the years, far too many to count, and I have seen a qualified accountant pick up a calculator to discover that 2+2 = 4. Seen a CEO not remember how to send a BCC email. Seen a registered NURSE forget to wash her bloody hands.

You get good and bad everywhere, not just ingame...trust me on this.

Correct and I don’t deny that, my opinion on this is the fact that if you join a dungeon with other people you have the obligation to know what you are doing because you are also using other peoples time directly in a cooperative environment

[Bukachu]

Average boss completion time
Avoidable damage taken (bozja showed us they can track this with duels)
Average healing - overhealing
Resurrection cast
Amount of damage mitigated
GCD uptime during bosses
Etc...

Obviously things like Death can affect these so it might need to see why the death occurred (I e. Did you die due to never getting healed or did you lick the orange smoothie on the floor?)
.
There's metrics to track performance if you choose to look for them. You're just covering your ears to them.

you can manipulate half of those metrics.

Average boss completion time - just save all damage CDs for boss fights. also obviously how well the rest of the group does damage will affect your scoring, or just play with friends you know are extremely good, to melt down bosses.
Average healing is probably the worst metric out of them all because the more you heal, the worse your group is, if someone stands in "orange smoothie" you'll get better scoring, if your group is good and they use sel-fhealing then even worse for you.
Amount of damage mitigated - pull packs 1 by 1 and use all mitigation on each pack
Death - what if you died because your tank died and then you got smacked
etc.

Avoidable damage taken and GCD uptime could work yeah, but all in all, due to the amount of randomness, you cant have a precise score. there's a reason even parses keep it down to minimum amount of variables.

I personally think, best thing they could do is, M+ styled dungeons, and they did say they're planning something similar in live letter so yeah, we'll live and see.