We Need to Start Expecting Mid-Level Sprouts to Play Better

[Padudu]

I mean reading your tooltips tells you what to do, sure a few classes like MNK can be a bit confusing to do when you read the skills at level 1 but this thread is not discussing accidentally doing celestial revolution twice because you don’t understand beast chakra, it’s absolute bare basic things like thinking cure 1 spam is a valid playstyle, or not AOE’ing on a DPS or a tank not using damage reduction skills

You can read tooltips all you want tho, doesn't mean players will properly utilize or understand them. WHM cure 1 spam is likely because they are fishing for freecure procs thinking that it is better than 2, 3, or the dozen of ogcd heals. That is what I am thinking anyways.

Some of the duties say otherwise, especially considering how many people were actually failing the Cape Westwind instance because they didn't realize they needed better gear.

This is just my experience but I've never seen people fail Cape Westwind, although tbf I rejoined this game pretty late so by the time I got the instance again, it was like a 1 minute cheese fight. In reality tho most of my experience is even with the leechers - you can just legit carry them through. Some people don't notice/don't care unless it's severely affecting the dungeon. Depending on what it is, it might not even matter. That's just a problem of the game being baby mode more than anything :/

[RyuDragnier]

This is just my experience but I've never seen people fail Cape Westwind, although tbf I rejoined this game pretty late so by the time I got the instance again, it was like a 1 minute cheese fight. In reality tho most of my experience is even with the leechers - you can just legit carry them through. Some people don't notice/don't care unless it's severely affecting the dungeon. Depending on what it is, it might not even matter. That's just a problem of the game being baby mode more than anything :/

Cape Westwind is now a solo instance, there is no completing it in 1 minute, or cheesing it with others anymore. The people losing are getting destroyed in the 3rd phase of it, which is basically a "burn the boss down" phase, because you are basically Holmgang'd and stuck in a burning field while he throws all his AoE attacks trying to kill you. It's pretty awesome.

[Supersnow845]

You can read tooltips all you want tho, doesn't mean players will properly utilize or understand them. WHM cure 1 spam is likely because they are fishing for freecure procs thinking that it is better than 2, 3, or the dozen of ogcd heals. That is what I am thinking anyways.


This is just my experience but I've never seen people fail Cape Westwind, although tbf I rejoined this game pretty late so by the time I got the instance again, it was like a 1 minute cheese fight. In reality tho most of my experience is even with the leechers - you can just legit carry them through. Some people don't notice/don't care unless it's severely affecting the dungeon. Depending on what it is, it might not even matter. That's just a problem of the game being baby mode more than anything :/

I mean if people can’t understand that “10% damage mitigation and 550 potency regen that also restores 700 mana and doesn’t interrupt damage” is better than “cast for 2 seconds to restore 400 potency” then I don’t really know what to say anymore

[EnigmaticDodo]

Thanks for the keeping up the fight. I've tried to make similar topics, usually get shot down. It's pretty draining and you can't satisfy everyone. I appreciate you nonetheless!

[VelKallor]

I’m not going to ever insult a player in game my entire thought process here is I just don’t believe this should be a conversation that should ever happen because people should understand the basics by about cutters cry at the latest

Snow....I have worked in dozens of places over the years, far too many to count, and I have seen a qualified accountant pick up a calculator to discover that 2+2 = 4. Seen a CEO not remember how to send a BCC email. Seen a registered NURSE forget to wash her bloody hands.

You get good and bad everywhere, not just ingame...trust me on this.

[Supersnow845]

Snow....I have worked in dozens of places over the years, far too many to count, and I have seen a qualified accountant pick up a calculator to discover that 2+2 = 4. Seen a CEO not remember how to send a BCC email. Seen a registered NURSE forget to wash her bloody hands.

You get good and bad everywhere, not just ingame...trust me on this.

Correct and I don’t deny that, my opinion on this is the fact that if you join a dungeon with other people you have the obligation to know what you are doing because you are also using other peoples time directly in a cooperative environment

[Bukachu]

Average boss completion time
Avoidable damage taken (bozja showed us they can track this with duels)
Average healing - overhealing
Resurrection cast
Amount of damage mitigated
GCD uptime during bosses
Etc...

Obviously things like Death can affect these so it might need to see why the death occurred (I e. Did you die due to never getting healed or did you lick the orange smoothie on the floor?)
.
There's metrics to track performance if you choose to look for them. You're just covering your ears to them.

you can manipulate half of those metrics.

Average boss completion time - just save all damage CDs for boss fights. also obviously how well the rest of the group does damage will affect your scoring, or just play with friends you know are extremely good, to melt down bosses.
Average healing is probably the worst metric out of them all because the more you heal, the worse your group is, if someone stands in "orange smoothie" you'll get better scoring, if your group is good and they use sel-fhealing then even worse for you.
Amount of damage mitigated - pull packs 1 by 1 and use all mitigation on each pack
Death - what if you died because your tank died and then you got smacked
etc.

Avoidable damage taken and GCD uptime could work yeah, but all in all, due to the amount of randomness, you cant have a precise score. there's a reason even parses keep it down to minimum amount of variables.

I personally think, best thing they could do is, M+ styled dungeons, and they did say they're planning something similar in live letter so yeah, we'll live and see.

[RobynDaBank]

Criterion Dungeons are nothing like M+ though, outside of having a Savage difficulty that can only be done with humans.

[Zaniel]

Once I saw this thread jump from 10 pages to 28 I knew the extremists had arrived.

OP: I just want people to play with their hands and not use their feet ...

28 pages later ....

#1: People have the right to afk any time they want mid pull and never press a single button for the whole dungeon in fact there should be no combat in the whole MSQ!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

#2 We should have inbuilt raid loggers and OLE matchmaking for Satasha and Savage prog should be part of the MSQ!!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

[Supersnow845]

Once I saw this thread jump from 10 pages to 28 I knew the extremists had arrived.

OP: I just want people to play with their hands and not use their feet ...

28 pages later ....

#1: People have the right to afk any time they want mid pull and never press a single button for the whole dungeon in fact there should be no combat in the whole MSQ!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

#2 We should have inbuilt raid loggers and OLE matchmaking for Satasha and Savage prog should be part of the MSQ!!!!! Yoshi-p agrees with me!!

I’ve still yet to see these supposed “anti casual extremist”

About the most extremist take in that direction on this thread is that there should be some kind of match making to split casual players away from higher end players and even that was mostly shoved down by both sides