2 minute burst rotation meta has negatively impacted combat

[Ruminous]

The changes just comes off as "we don't trust the playerbase to git gud so we'll just nerf everything" There's a fine balance between making every job viable and not making them cookie cutters. Imo 4.0 was the first and last expansion to achieve both. Sure some jobs had downsides but for the most part that was just due to questionable job design. Like why did MNK have a move which removed your GL stacks and slowed your gcd for miniscule dmg? Regardless I think we will further see vitriol in the future in addition to more homogenization if they lock all jobs to the 1-2 min bursts.

What you will see is ppl who don't know how to maximize burst windows fall behind and be excluded. They've ironically added more pressure to perform because now you HAVE to do your burst correctly since everyone else is doing the same thing at the same time. At least before you could get away with the notion that my job doesn't fit into every burst window but now there is no excuse. Couple with the fact that parsing is becoming more prevalent, this design choice is going to bite them in the rear sooner rather than later. The return of "skip soar" is drawing near and the devs have no one to blame but themselves for turning every job into a dps.

Hey, like you said, if the devs don't trust people to git gud and just nerf everything, it does make the burst easier to do. I'd rather they stop dumbing down jobs mind you. People can and will still find ways to fail at them, and that's what amuses and scares me more.

[Avenheit]

RDM NIN and SAM all burst on a 2min window and they don't play anything alike

the issue with SAM in burst rotation is that it suffers reaaaaaaaaaally disgusting skill drift and it didn't exist in shb. I felt SAM had one of the most smooth rotations but now its really yucky.

[xAFROx]

the issue with SAM in burst rotation is that it suffers reaaaaaaaaaally disgusting skill drift and it didn't exist in shb. I felt SAM had one of the most smooth rotations but now its really yucky.

Agreed. The second charge on Tsubame-Gaeshi really makes it feel off. I don't think that needed to have 2 charges and it likely could've been baked into the iaijutsu itself if they wanted to double the amount of times we use it, similarly to how they did it for ogi namikiri, but even that is probably an odd direction unless they find a way to smooth out the kit.

But I'm not super heavily into the kind of content where lining up bursts is necessary, so I'll leave my comments there.

[Yeastyloins]

Agreed. The second charge on Tsubame-Gaeshi really makes it feel off. I don't think that needed to have 2 charges and it likely could've been baked into the iaijutsu itself if they wanted to double the amount of times we use it, similarly to how they did it for ogi namikiri, but even that is probably an odd direction unless they find a way to smooth out the kit.

But I'm not super heavily into the kind of content where lining up bursts is necessary, so I'll leave my comments there.

Given the focus on the 2 min window, the two stacks on Tsubame and Mekiyo is actually good since should something goes south in your rotation or during the fight, then its recoverable.

[Hezhi]

I really hope SAM doesn't end up getting another redundant skill. What next would they remove to keep it due to "bloat"? I'd rather they bring back Seigan as a reward for proper mitigation again, and make Meditation stacks as a whole more interactive.

We're going to get a Kaiten clone at level 96 and single target Ogi at level 100 while Higanbana gets pruned because DoTs bad. Also Ogi Namikiri is a circle AOE now somehow. Please look forward to it.

[george357]

i have leveled all the jobs and find they all have good points and bad ones so pick the ones you like and stay with them.

[Payadopa]

That is exactly what happens if you play the numbers game exclusively. Fun becomes an afterthought. Homogenisation because mah numbers.

[Shikiseki]

Hey, like you said, if the devs don't trust people to git gud and just nerf everything, it does make the burst easier to do. I'd rather they stop dumbing down jobs mind you. People can and will still find ways to fail at them, and that's what amuses and scares me more.

as if having everything align to 2minute burst would stop people making mistakes and keep them from dying. If anything, missing the 2min burst window and rotation for whatever reason, you're basically lost for the remainder of the encounter as nothing will sync up anymore unless you save your entire rotation and skills by not using them...

battle dynamics have been gone sadly and it's charge system on the wrong abilities have been nothing but a detriment to this battle system ever since

[LeonKeyh]

as if having everything align to 2minute burst would stop people making mistakes and keep them from dying. If anything, missing the 2min burst window and rotation for whatever reason, you're basically lost for the remainder of the encounter as nothing will sync up anymore unless you save your entire rotation and skills by not using them...

battle dynamics have been gone sadly and it's charge system on the wrong abilities have been nothing but a detriment to this battle system ever since

"Wrong" abilities? I think they've done a fairly "ok" job at giving abilities charges; Not "great" just "ok" but I'm interested in knowing which abilities have actually been a detriment.


Is the goal here to remove group-wide temporary buffs? I feel like any time you have those, there's going to be a "best" way of using them which means "right away" or "hold until X." Or, I was a pretty serious raider in Everquest 2 and they had certain buffs that didn't matter too much when you used them. Namely, a buff that did a flat amount of damage every time you hit something. Is that the answer? The burst windows are how they are because of the exponential increase of the buffs that are being used. If it were, instead, a flat potency per hit that would cause SkS/SpS to be more powerful than it is. That's the only way I can see "fixing" the burst window stuff.

I definitely agree though, the burst window game play is kinda "eh" and it causes so many issues (but, giving charges to gap closers has helped that....very very little...) It's interesting to a certain point because you're rewarded for not drifting, but I feel like you're punished a little too much for drifting everything, AND you punish other people a little too much.

[Shikiseki]

"Wrong" abilities? I think they've done a fairly "ok" job at giving abilities charges; Not "great" just "ok" but I'm interested in knowing which abilities have actually been a detriment.
.

it's mostly those attack abilities that you'd otherwise have to use on cooldown in your rotation to not waste their usage.
That save up everything to unleash every 2minute gameplay style is ok on a select few jobs but at this point, every job feels like that - charges just amplify that. It starts at even something as plainly as the AST draw ability. I get that it was to make it more lenient in case you forget to draw but now it's draw 3 times in a batch with nothing but malefics in between.
Charges to Celestial Intersection as a counter example is useful enough to keep one usage just in case of a double buster.

And I could name an example for almost every other job at this point.