RIP SAM - no reverts planned for 6.2

[Ruminous]

By expressing your thoughts & opinion that differentiates your’s one becomes labelled as the “anatgonist” when truth to be told it’s all differences within civility & some individuals are impulsive & overreact by ushering words & more labels to others.

How are you any different?

PS: Drama is ensued where one reacts & further fuels its flames. Such is the current predicament of such recent posts.

PSS: Please don’t divert the main theme of this post than further looking under my table & go beyond it.

You literally are acting antagonistic to people here, you have been ever since you started posting here. Even your comments in this thread with little quips like "sipping wine and sighing" already come off like that.

-sighs & sips wine- this one is ever raging,

Listen, you’ve made a martyr out of Kaiten on your slogan. I cannot fathom to ever comprehend what’s this rage you’re still containing which is not helping.

How does parse dictate my overall gameplay of the game anyway? : /

You could try better than that

You literally do not see how you come off as a troll? Are you that blind? Because as I've pointed out in many other threads, your post history is not hidden from us and it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to find several trollish response posts from you. People WILL look under the table at your history. Considering you've never done anything to change people's perception of you, guess what, you're a troll. As for other people being different? Have you seen the responses to more civil posts? They'll get proper explanations and less jackass remarks. But go on, keep playing victim. It is your thing isn't it?

[Ransu]

You and Ransu probably don't want to go down this road unless you want to get banned tbh.
Especially on the forum.

I don't care at this point to be honest. I'm gonna call his shit out. Dudes a troll who's also bad at the game. He has no business talking about the changes to sam when he doesn't even play the damn job.

[Wyssahtyn]

They took away a button that lets you crit once every 90ish seconds, and instead put autocrits on everything you would have used it on, giving you three or four times more crits?

[Ransu]

I mean.. I didnt say folks had to like it... they did indeed had plans for healers, it was to reduce bloat simply so they could add future skills, and likely that for Sam. If the devs truely made their mind about this and folks still dont like it, welp, THIS GAME IS NO LONGER FOR YOU... As mentioned before, quit the job or quit the game, devs look at the statistics more so then comments...

Shoha 1 and 2, Senei and guren, Shenten and Kyuten could easily be a single skill with max potency on first hit and reduced potency aoe per enemy hit like other aoes do.

Ogi Namkiri could easily be put into the same button as ishikoten considering you have to use ishi to even use ogi...

If they wanted to make room for new skills there are SO MANY other options they could have done. They didn't get rid of kaiten because of bloat, they got rid of it because they wanted to remove crit variations and make our iajutsus stuff auto crit so they could have an easier time balancing the damage for DSR. Their action bloat excuse was pure nonsense.

Could somebody explain what the problem is?
Seriously asking here.

They took away a button that lets you crit once every 90ish seconds, and instead put autocrits on everything you would have used it on, giving you three or four times more crits?

That's...not how kaiten worked. And the auto crits are just as bad if not worse than losing kaiten. The loss of kaiten also means that all you use kenki for is spamming shinten. There's no resource management anymore.

[ICountFrom0]

Kaiten used to increase the next weaponskill's damage by 50% at the cost of 20 kenki while being a really solid job to feed raid buffs (more raw damage = more benefit). Now the kenki gauge exists nearly solely to use shinten, a skill that previously existed only to prevent overcapping, the autocrits have reduced the synergy samurai had with raid buffs, the potencies have been adjusted so it's theoretically about 3 dps different, but in practice the big hits you used to build towards don't hit as hard, particularly if you compare a direct crit then to now and their stated justification "bloat" does not seem to have been achieved. (the justification has been translated various ways, but seeing as shinten and kaiten have similar costs, it works out to the reduction of about 1 action per minute, or the removal of one button that added some depth to the job rather than the consolidation of the imaginatively named shoha and shoha 2).

Personally I think the bad path started with the removal of Seigan (that counter thingy), but most people are fine with that.

Oh, Crit is double damage, so that should be an increase from only a 50% bonus?
You don't have to spend Kenki anymore to do it, so you can spend it on the other attack.

So your gaining damage TWO ways, not just one?

DPS goes up with this change, don't it?

I still don't understand the problem.

[AsiTsurugi]

Oh, Crit is double damage, so that should be an increase from only a 50% bonus?
You don't have to spend Kenki anymore to do it, so you can spend it on the other attack.

So your gaining damage TWO ways, not just one?

DPS goes up with this change, don't it?

I still don't understand the problem.

Firstly, The 50% damage boost could also crit, and considering the potency changes in 6.1, the pre-6.1 kaiten + midare or kaiten + ogi that did not crit hits for the same amount as "crit" midare and ogi now. Secondly, current combo buttons like Gekko and Kasha can crit-dh almost as much as just crit Midare, and crit-dh Midare can hit as much as just crit Ogi, which negates the whole "build up stickers for a big hit" aesthetic that was inherent to samurai since its inception. Also, crit is not "double damage"; damage from crit strikes varies as crit hit stat, same as crit chance stat. Moreover, kaiten gave a slight bump to the damage floor and learning curve, as well as much needed variation in kenki expenditure, not to mention the animation which looked cool.

That's the TLDR response for your questions.

[SaberMaxwell]

It sounds like you don't even understand the situation of samurai to even begin understanding why so many are annoyed at the removal of Kaiten. The numbers themselves aren't the reason although they do have an effect; the problem is that the game feel that kaiten provided has been removed for no reason. Kaiten was at once a kenki resource management check to make sure you weren't over-spending on shinten and a focusing ability to get one ready for a large payoff for playing correctly.

If we're going to talk pure numbers, then remember that a Kaiten Setsugekka could also crit, meaning it did that much more damage for a dopamine hit that SAM no longer has. If we're going to talk composition, SAM no longer plays well with SCH, DRG, or most importantly, DNC because all three buff crit rate and not crit damage, which is a useless buff when SAM has auto-crits. All of that is secondary though since, again, the point is that SAM's game feel has been damaged harshly for no explained reason.

[Ransu]

Oh, Crit is double damage, so that should be an increase from only a 50% bonus?
You don't have to spend Kenki anymore to do it, so you can spend it on the other attack.

So your gaining damage TWO ways, not just one?

DPS goes up with this change, don't it?

I still don't understand the problem.

No, current iteration of sam dps is lower than max dps prior to 6.1. The main difference is since iajutsus always crit the damage is consistent so while its not "bad" and they still do a lot of dps, the overall playstyle is simply boring now. A auto crit midare now is 27-30k which was basically what it hit in 6.0 without a crit. Direct hit crits in 6.0 could easily crit for 60k+

Shinten doesn't really make up for the damage bonus from kaiten and shinten in itself is ridiculously boring to use. Kenki serves no purpose anymore either.

[CelestiCer]

Oh, Crit is double damage, so that should be an increase from only a 50% bonus?
You don't have to spend Kenki anymore to do it, so you can spend it on the other attack.

So your gaining damage TWO ways, not just one?

DPS goes up with this change, don't it?

I still don't understand the problem.

Kaiten was a resource button that gave our Resource gauge meaning. Without it? it's really shallow.

Kaiten was a 20 Kenki resource spending Skill that amplified the next Weaponskill by 50% damage. Samurai's would usually apply this to Higanbana a 1 min Damage over time (DoT), Midare Setsugekka a hard hitting skill and Ogi Namikiri your hardest hitting Skill that also AoE's for your main rotation. During Dungeons or something like Fate farming AoE, Tenka Goken and Ogi Namikiri would be amplified with Kaiten.

Because we have a Cap limit of 100 Kenki max that we could hold, Kaiten forces a Samurai player that wants to do utmost damage, to really make good use of Kenki Management. You can't just Kaiten everything, that's a damage loss. Kaiten would also be consumed if you used the wrong skill like a Dash or Enpi that you would not want. When a boss has phase transitions, you would need to think a tiny bit more on how to spend your Kenki and Kaiten when a boss becomes targetable again mixed with Meditate.

There's also something called " Raid Buffs " that you would want to align resources that you hold onto and not just throw out because you could, saving as much as possible. Add Kaiten to this and it does require an extra Braincell which many find satisfying since it does take some skill expression. Not a whole lot, but at least something to increase damage output.

Kaiten also had flare, a good feel animation, and without AutoCrits, it allows us to really Crit high on each hit. So not so much our performance being the issue here since our damage fluctuations having possible low-lows but amazing very high-highs and I do mean high which is the satisfaction the job has - that Yoshi P even admitted in the previous Live letter.

==============

OR YOU CAN HAVE NONE OF THIS

Now that Kaiten is removed and we get Auto Crits making our hits feel flaccid and mediocre across the board I will showcase really simply the nuance of our Kenki management gameplay in place of Kaiten that you can spam thoughtlessly, no skill expression, no flare, and utterly boring. if you're ready to read it? here goes...

Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten - Shinten....

[Rilifane]

Personally I think the bad path started with the removal of Seigan (that counter thingy), but most people are fine with that.

I was definitely not fine with it, I miss Seigan.
Seigan was the main draw for me for SAM because it was a mechanic unique to SAM that rewarded attentive, good gameplay with dps or could be used for an additional, albeit small, clutch heal if things went south. The rest, like combos, building big nuke-y burst was pretty whatever for me because it's basically the same basic concept across all melees: do 123 until shiny things happen and big hits go BRRR. I like the aesthetic of SAM, I think Kaiten nailed what the class is about but what really kept me interested in it and made me take it into savage at least a few times was The whole Third Eye/ Seigan mechanic.

Of all the buttons they could have merged or removed they chose the one thing that was truly unique to SAM.
Huge red flag for me and surprise, surprise, they doubled down on this path.