RIP SAM - no reverts planned for 6.2

**VictorSpoils** · 07-15-2022 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Quor

Incorrect. Hagakure and Energy Drain were removed from the game at the start of ShB (5.0). They were returned in 5.08, which wasn't even a major patch, but rather the release of the savage raids for Eden 1-4. So there is absolutely precedent.

Then there may be a shred of hope after all, unless too much time has passed already in comparison to them. It could also get nerfed like they were.

**Kolsykol** · 07-15-2022 02:54 AM

You're extrapolating quite a lot from that statement because it fits what you want to believe because you want to be angry....

The statement doesn't say that they won't give Kaiten back and if they didn't give a shit then they wouldn't take the time to explain things to us or delay other reworks due to the negative response.
I see people talk about the whole crit thing but we've had auto-crits removed before in the past ( see Kassatsu as an example ).
He should be able to talk about crit as a game mechanic without people putting words in his mouth and reading things into it because people obsess about Kaiten 24/7.
Like holy shit, yes I get it I don't like the removal of Kaiten either.
But it's getting extremely tiresome with this excessive levels of negativity and just blatant intentional outrage for the sake of outrage.
Like you're not interested at all in listening to what they have to say in good faith, all you're doing is taking harmless and obvious statements then reading things into it that fits the narrative you want to push and put words in their mouth and spin things to make it sound like he's saying things in a spiteful way when he isn't.

No one will ever be happy regardless what changes they make, even if they returned Kaiten there would be people unhappy about it because they approved of the removal of it.
He's just making a broad statement not everything that comes out of his mouth is about Kaiten.
The devs do listen, but they don't listen to people who have no interest in being respectful or can't interact with them in good faith.

Originally Posted by Quor

Incorrect. Hagakure and Energy Drain were removed from the game at the start of ShB (5.0). They were returned in 5.08, which wasn't even a major patch, but rather the release of the savage raids for Eden 1-4. So there is absolutely precedent.

Yes and Energy Drain was returned specifically because people asked for it.
Just because people don't get what they want all the time or immediately doesn't mean that they're not listening.
Altho if people want to be listened to then these types of threads are completely counter-productive, the devs have said many times that they ignore and stop reading comments that are disrespectful and aggressive towards them and that the fastest way of being listened to is to be respectful.

People behave like toddlers then wonder why they're not being heard.
If people actually want the devs to read their comment then skip the hyperbole and weird personal attacks.

Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Then there may be a shred of hope after all, unless too much time has passed already in comparison to them. It could also get nerfed like they were.

My guess is that they might return Kaiten and make it the auto-crit function.

**VictorSpoils** · 07-16-2022 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by Quor

Incorrect. Hagakure and Energy Drain were removed from the game at the start of ShB (5.0). They were returned in 5.08, which wasn't even a major patch, but rather the release of the savage raids for Eden 1-4. So there is absolutely precedent.

Actually looked into this more and it was 5.05 that returned them, so they weren't even gone for a month. Steel Peak + Howling Fist were also removed in 5.0 before EW brought them back.

In retrospect, it's a bit odd that they would quickly undo Hagakure's removal and not Kaiten.

**CelestiCer** · 07-16-2022 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Actually looked into this more and it was 5.05 that returned them, so they weren't even gone for a month. Steel Peak + Howling Fist were also removed in 5.0 before EW brought them back.

In retrospect, it's a bit odd that they would quickly undo Hagakure's removal and not Kaiten.

It showcases that they could and it's from far from impossible. Then again so many apologists make it sound like Square and the Dev's have to adhere to this unwritten scripture, this mythical schedule that they cannot possibly divert from.

They can't and won't do it in x patch because...
Not during Expansion XYZ...
Yeah but DSR and balance etc...

Even indie companies, smaller mmo's can and have done it. For SE? that's a flick of the wrist. I am not buying the excuse that it's impossible, retrospectively or not. Specially to not be able to address it for 4 months <- that's the real kicker.

It is a literal " W " up for grabs at this point for SE. And I have no clue what Crit/D.Hit changes they have to announce? I am sure Kaiten with weapon potency increase? is not game breaking to stand in the way of it either.

**Kabooa** · 07-16-2022 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

Actually looked into this more and it was 5.05 that returned them, so they weren't even gone for a month. Steel Peak + Howling Fist were also removed in 5.0 before EW brought them back.

In retrospect, it's a bit odd that they would quickly undo Hagakure's removal and not Kaiten.

Hagakure was removed on ShB launch because it wasn't being utilized how it was intended, which was GCD correction. It was being used as a hard OGCD potency boost because it shoved the equivalent amount of potency that a Midare gave you into the OGCD space. We call this a "metric fu$$tone" of damage.

It was returned because during that period on ShB launch, it became increasingly apparent that Tsubame Gaeshi being added to the kit required GCD correction, so Hagakure was returned in a heavily altered state - No cooldown, reduced Kenki generation. Essentially being a DPS loss unless being used as a corrective measure to prevent even further DPS loss.

**CelestiCer** · 07-15-2022 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Eldtagg

... It's unrealistic to expect that your favorite class (mine is also SAM) should be balanced and fun every single day of the year.

As unrealistic as a company caring to life up to their promises of listening to feedback they requested of us testing their crap. That and SE moderating troll posts without some reading disability, a pipe-dream indeed.

SE can fix a plethora of very-recent issues during minor patches, even address and say " We're sowwy " for each mistake/problem like a Southpark side character,... except for recent 6.1 SAM changes. To the surprise of no one since other jobs got changed and let down in the past, cause it's a " realistic " accepted tradition.

"Queue up the Expansion-Roulette, which Job is getting screwed over this time?" amirite?

With a myriad of excuses again, troll posts again and apologists leff and right...again... they can't even word out what they are going to do with the next job changes. Probably in fear of another backlash if the next job changes are as terrible as the 6.1 SAM changes are.

" Better get back those healer mains for testing SE used to have and let go cause they were to good at dungeons ", I'm sure they play every job like not Samurai, erm Blackmage and... Miner?

If this feedback is the best we as a StarSparkling-Community can do?

Some handful of trolls
I'll settle for worse...
Billion dollar company can't though...
They can't possibly do this during a patch becuz...
But precious Mr.Y will Cry...

Then I guess let the express-train of 10 years with jobs becoming dumber, stupider, homogenized, simplified, with fewer and fewer buttons keep riding on.

**Vencio** · 07-15-2022 12:16 AM

No….

You’ve built this wall & barricaded yourself in this dome of perdition whilst creating endless posts.

Deal with what we have & move on.

**xAFROx** · 07-15-2022 12:30 AM

Absolutely nothing has been said about SAM yet. Why are we all doom posting before the next actual live letter?

All they did was reiterate what was stated during the previous live letter which never cited SAM as a reason.

**AsiTsurugi** · 07-15-2022 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by xAFROx

Absolutely nothing has been said about SAM yet. Why are we all doom posting before the next actual live letter?

All they did was reiterate what was stated during the previous live letter which never cited SAM as a reason.

Because after all this time of Yoshida and co pretending no SAM-related feedback was received and therefore acknowledged, one doesn't have any patience whatsoever to give credence or "benefit of the doubt" to incompetent corporate suits that are "developing the game" by hiding behind their banal PR speak. Imagine demanding "respect" after siphoning off 12 dollars a month for taking lessons from us on how common sense works and then pretending they are so sorry and "upset at bad words" and how in the future they will definitely use their (un)common sense, just like they promised for the past several years for other classes and general diluted gameplay on offer for an exorbitant premium.

**darkdyllon** · 08-02-2022 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by xAFROx

Absolutely nothing has been said about SAM yet. Why are we all doom posting before the next actual live letter?

All they did was reiterate what was stated during the previous live letter which never cited SAM as a reason.

probably because there has be no communication regarding this.
the feedback has been overwhelming, yet not a word on it, only speculations which only drives into the "doom posting" scenario.
meanwhile PvP messes up BLM balance? yoshi instantly reacts to it publicly, this also drives into the doom posting since then people go "wait, if he can react that fast to PvP fuck ups, why not PvE" which is reasonable to me.
He asked for feedback and us trying the job, granted i've migrated to RDM and not looking back, but SAM was generally my roulette job since it does a lot of damage and seeing Kaiten not being there doesn't do it for me.
but he asked us to try the job, sure we did and we didn't like it, yet it's 100% radio silent, he could've easily made an statement in the LL for 6.2 part 1, but they only said that AST/DRG/whatever reworks are going to be for expansions, while stating their plan for crit/DH.

nothing on the SAM backlash, which is worrying to many since they've been basically forced to play an half broken job in their perspective (i get it) for nearly 3 or 4 months now.

Thread: RIP SAM - no reverts planned for 6.2

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