Is the "healing portion" of healers hitting a wall in EW?

[Atma]

Which begs the question, why wasn't it an issue for the ~4 years that the game had healers playing this way? Don't get me wrong, I don't think all the healers should get 3/4 dots back, but returning one of them back to that, SCH would probably make the most sense so that it's a play style option makes a ton of sense. Get some diversity back into the role. Give Sadge the procs, have WHM focus on generating burst through Lily/Blood Lily usage whilst AST sinks GCDs into a deck building mini game for card buffs.

At the end of the day I don't want a gun breaker healer. I just want content like Aglaia to be engaging. At this point I really couldn't care how SE do it as long as they do *something* as it's just beyond boring now. (...)

(...) However pleases appreciate that there's a difference between wanting some DPS complexity for healers vs simply wanting healers to do more damage. Relative healer damage is the lowest it's ever been in this game since 2.0 but people aren't complaining about that. It's the tedium that's the problem.

More complexity without more damage is illusory complexity. As for DOTs, I can't say definitively. All I can say is that I didn't play healers during that phase at all because of that stuff. I will stop if it comes back. So I mean it was an issue, it just wasn't an issue for me. No one should be forced into juggling multiple dots just cause they want to heal.

I would love for the content to be more engaging too, I simply fundamentally disagree with the notion the answer is in expanding healer DPS responsibilities. It is my opinion that the forums have a loud and vocal advocacy of players who, for lack of a more elegant way to put it, want to play DPS but play healers because they just don't want to deal with queues. Which is fair, but it's also not fair to force that mindset on the people who are interested in healers as *healers*

I want meaningful decisions in healing, I want more randomized instances of damage intended to keep me on my toes, I want more debuffs or situations that come up that require me to take action. OGCD heals should be the emergency option, not the standard.

If you want expanded DPS options - WHM and Sage do it right. They have damage abilities that are fueled by, and triggered by, the results of them actively using their healing toolkit which ultimately goes into a damage ability, Afflatus Misery or Toxikon. Those are examples to me of "healer dps abilities done right, not just adding more abilities. AST is a bit more dubious with their cards leading up to Divination which I *guess* is kind of damage in a roundabout way. You could talk me into shifting my mindset about expanding the healer DPS toolkit if and only if the abilities gained in question are enabled by the results of actual healing actions that would naturally occur from them adding more need to actively heal.

[IDontPetLalas]

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I would love for the content to be more engaging too, I simply fundamentally disagree with the notion the answer is in expanding healer DPS responsibilities. It is my opinion that the forums have a loud and vocal advocacy of players who, for lack of a more elegant way to put it, want to play DPS but play healers because they just don't want to deal with queues. Which is fair, but it's also not fair to force that mindset on the people who are interested in healers as *healers*
I want meaningful decisions in healing, I want more randomized instances of damage intended to keep me on my toes, I want more debuffs or situations that come up that require me to take action. OGCD heals should be the emergency option, not the standard.If you want expanded DPS options - WHM and Sage do it right. They have damage abilities that are fueled by, and triggered by, the results of them actively using their healing toolkit which ultimately goes into a damage ability, Afflatus Misery or Toxikon. Those are examples to me of "healer dps abilities done right, not just adding more abilities. AST is a bit more dubious with their cards leading up to Divination which I *guess* is kind of damage in a roundabout way. You could talk me into shifting my mindset about expanding the healer DPS toolkit if and only if the abilities gained in question are enabled by the results of actual healing actions that would naturally occur from them adding more need to actively heal.

it is an opinion to claim that adding additional DPS or other skills that are not heals means that other people want those skills just because they want to skip queues. Now that may certainly be true for some players, and even so- so what? are you going to balance a job around the fact that some people do that? That also applies to people who play tanks - are you going to design tanks around that too? doesn't make any sense to me.

i understand that you may not want to juggle more dots, i'm not a big proponent of dot classes myself. that being said i wouldn't object at all if one healer had multiple dots since some people do enjoy that. i can understand that you want more challenging heals, however se has already said that this won't be done so we should have options to keep us engaged. that means that damage and buffs is the way to go.

i don't see what you mean by whm or sge does dps right. both are rather disappointing in their current state, and adding more dps abilities only if fueled by healing - what do you do once someone is healed- stop dpsing? no thanks. this would be even worse applied to anyone who wants to play their healer outside of group content.

[Atma]

it is an opinion to claim that adding additional DPS or other skills that are not heals means that other people want those skills just because they want to skip queues.

Yes, I'm aware of that... that's why I clearly denoted it as such...

Now that may certainly be true for some players, and even so- so what? are you going to balance a job around the fact that some people do that? That also applies to people who play tanks - are you going to design tanks around that too? doesn't make any sense to me.

... Uh, it's called.. gunbreaker? That's literally the tank designed around the concept of "a tank that plays like a DPS."

i don't see what you mean by whm or sge does dps right. both are rather disappointing in their current state..

That comment was not about the general state of the class's DPS, it was in relation to those two abilities referenced (Afflatus Misery and Toxikon) and how they are triggered by taking healing actions.

[IDontPetLalas]

Yes, I'm aware of that... that's why I clearly denoted it as such...



... Uh, it's called.. gunbreaker? That's literally the tank designed around the concept of "a tank that plays like a DPS."

except that as you stated 'It is my opinion that the forums have a loud and vocal advocacy of players who, for lack of a more elegant way to put it, want to play DPS but play healers because they just don't want to deal with queues. Which is fair, but it's also not fair to force that mindset on the people who are interested in healers as *healers*' -- you don't claim that gunbreakers play a gunbreaker to skip queues, do you? or that they aren't real tanks? but omg an extra dot somehow means that a whm is going to play like a dps?




That comment was not about the general state of the class's DPS, it was in relation to those two abilities referenced (Afflatus Misery and Toxikon) and how they are triggered by taking healing actions.

i'm aware of that, but by stating '.If you want expanded DPS options - WHM and Sage do it right" you you did open up that discussion.

if you are going to quote me, please don't do so out of context. as such your replies make no sense whatsoever.

allow me to repeat again

it is an opinion to claim that adding additional DPS or other skills that are not heals means that other people want those skills just because they want to skip queues. Now that may certainly be true for some players, and even so- so what? are you going to balance a job around the fact that some people do that? That also applies to people who play tanks - are you going to design tanks around that too? doesn't make any sense to me.

[Atma]

Here, I'll try to be very succinct in my thoughts.

The challenge I have with this is that people seem to view "adding more DPS", be it just options or abilities that net out to the same damage, is a fix. It's not. The remainder of things will simply be rebalanced around those changes so it will net out the same. Your 'contribution', as probably best described, will remain unchanged. You've gained nothing except more buttons to press to do the same thing. Side note - I don't think they're going to do this because again, the trend right now appears to be actively working to reduce class buttons, not increase them.

There are not two choices here. There are 3.

Increase healing requirements - What I think most people actually want to happen. I get it, they're resistant.
Do absolutely nothing - The stalemate continues, things go on as is with people being disgruntled and upset.
Add DPS abilities - I am so vocally opposed to this because I think it is *absolutely detrimental* to a real fix ever being added. The minute people capitulate to this is the minute they get to put up a big Mission Accomplished banner in the office and call the problem solved, and then immediately proceed to just start rebalancing all future content around it so nothing fundamentally changes. Will there be a short term dopamine rush? YES. Will it then go on to continue to require more and more and more to be added to keep providing the same? YES. Will it solve anything at all on a core level? No. It will not.

[Rilifane]

Here, I'll try to be very succinct in my thoughts.

The challenge I have with this is that people seem to view "adding more DPS", be it just options or abilities that net out to the same damage, is a fix. It's not. The remainder of things will simply be rebalanced around those changes so it will net out the same. Your 'contribution', as probably best described, will remain unchanged. You've gained nothing except more buttons to press to do the same thing.

And that is exactly what would make me a much happier healer and might get me to playing it more again.
Yes, I want more buttons for the same output. There. I said it. And no, it won't only last for 2 weeks, you're making a lot of assumptions about people you don't even know and all for the purpose proving your point when assumptions prove exactly nothing.
I don't want my entire contribution coming from 1 button with the occasional 2nd button thrown in. That is mindless, boring and frankly insulting.

You keep assuming people want more dps in terms of numbers. That they want to secretly play a dps. That once they get one additional button, they'll ask for proper dps buffs and even higher dps. That they want "gunbreaker, but healer". And yet I can't remember anyone ever asking for that. That's all your assumption and I can't find proof of it.
As Sebazy has already said: dps (in comparison to tanks/ dps) is lower than ever from healers - yet I don't hear healers compain about that, they're complaining about not being busy enough.

The thing with getting more to heal is that everything would need to be rebalanced, starting with Sastasha. We have the base game and 4 expansions worth of group content that would need a major overhaul to make that happen.