CC balance

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

...is honestly a joke.

WAR/SMN buffs? Who asked?
No WHM nerfs?
A practically nonexistent NIN nerf?
Even BLM pretty much just got a side-grade rather than a real nerf to its ridiculous Ice Mage playstyle.

BRD and GNB are still awkward to play, DNC is still crying itself to sleep, SGE is still very confused as to why it has effectively no protective capability and no crowd control.

Where are the role queues/party comp restrictions? I'm tired of being saddled with 4 DPS while the enemy team has a WHM+WAR--or on the other hand, having to play with 2 tanks+2healers and being unable to kill anyone due to lack of damage.

Can squex please hire a real balance team that actually knows what they're doing, and knows the weight of being able to patch only once every 2-3mo? If they want any sort of longevity for the game mode, I really hope they put more effort into balancing it. Otherwise, this will just end up as Feast 2.0, with every season dying 2 weeks after reset because nobody wants to play the mode outside of reaching rewards.

[Atmaweapon510]

BLM got a huge nerf to ice mage. 50% less duration at max stacks and not stunning below 3 stacks is huge. It also means that Fire becomes more attractive to superflare compared to ice when under 3 stacks since it gets more out of the first stack.

[Petite]

Replies in blue:

[CC balance]... is honestly a joke.
WAR/SMN buffs? Who asked?
WAR: Orogeny wasn't often worth the HP cost for how little damage it dealt, even when considering the debuff it applies.
SMN: Fester was pretty damn weak for such an important part SMN’s burst.

A practically nonexistent NIN nerf?
NIN: Not a big deal, but lowering it further means coming dangerously close to turning their LB into a single K.O. skill at best.

Even BLM pretty much just got a side-grade rather than a real nerf to its ridiculous Ice Mage playstyleé
BLM: Actually, BLM’s nerfs are the best adjustments of the patch. Reducing lvl3 Deep Freeze from 3 to 2s while also turning the other levels into manageable CCs is a big deal.
Though, BLM retains its OP damage output which is still too high IMO.

BRD and GNB are still awkward to play, DNC is still crying itself to sleep, SGE is still very confused as to why it has effectively no protective capability and no crowd control.
BRD: True. BRD is still a Nocturne-Mage. A 3s silence on a 20s Recast timer is way too strong and frustrating while the rest of their kit and especially their LB are meh at best.
GNB: True. I don’t like how they are still increasing their damage instead of looking at Conjunction and making that job more interesting.
DNC: Let’s see how their buffs play out before crying wolf.
SGE: DRG and SGE are plenty viable despite not having CCs. Not all jobs need ‘em. More importantly, there’s way too much CC in CC as it is.
Also, SGE has Pneuma, Kardia and especially Mesotes. Granted they do fewer mitigation/healing overall than other healers, it's not nothing.

Can squex please hire a real balance team that actually knows what they're doing […]
I don't blame the devs for shunning the english part of the forums if that's how respectful we act towards them.

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

Alright that last bit is fair, I admit I was pretty heated. But let's talk about the other stuff, if you don't mind.

>WAR/SMN
Sure, the changes to the individual abilities might be justified in a vacuum, but my point is that those jobs didn't need any help to begin with. I know plenty of people who were already confused at the 6.15 SMN buffs.

>NIN
I'm not saying that a reset reduction isn't enough. I honestly couldn't care less about the reset timer--that was never the main problem with Seiton, or even NIN as a whole. <=50% HP execution through Guard with 20y range? That's just too much. NIN has too much capability in too many areas, and it doesn't even make up for it by being the jack of all trades. Many of its tools are best-in-class for what they do. It's practically not even a melee job--it's a bursty caster assassin with area denial, damage mitigation, and unmatched mobility. Everybody knows NIN is one of the strongest jobs, and yet all it gets is a little slap on the wrist.

>BLM
I see where you're coming from, but in my eyes, a 2s multi-target Heavy is more impactful than a 1s micro-stun. The significant teamfight impact of an AoE Heavy is precisely why they took it away from Nightwing, and AST's Gravity. I understand that they took some strength off the top end of Umbral Ice, but the slightly upwards side-grade on the low end more than makes up for it.

>DNC
Being the red-headed step child of the ranged physical DPS with its 15y range instant casts has left it stranded awkwardly between melee jobs and ranged jobs. I don't think that simple potency adjustments will solve any of its issues, much like GNB.

>SGE
I can see DRG not needing cc, but SGE is tied for squishiest job + it has to expose itself to dangerous sightlines in order to cast. Which is fine, but it's frustrating that it has next to no options to peel for itself when the inevitable gank occurs, especially given the other healers' options (Miracle of Nature, Gravity, SCH's significantly greater protective capability). Kardia is awkward to use and rather underpowered; the skill floor is too high for little return. I don't understand why it doesn't proc on any casts besides Dosis, given how its PvE counterpart behaves. It's pretty much just for Toxikon II uptime. The Pneuma shield also behaves clunkily with server ticks, and universal Recuperate means that the healing is almost always wasted. Mesotes also has a high skill floor, and a difficult-to-maximize return. On the other hand, it's very easy to waste or misplace it--or to get knocked out of it and bursted by MCH/MNK, which I've seen more and more often lately.

Obviously I'm biased as a SGE main, but it truly feels like one of the weakest jobs--or more accurately, one of the most difficult to do well with. I think a single-tgt Heavy on Phlegma and more/stronger Kardia procs isn't too much to ask. I'll gladly trade away some of its big AoE damage in exchange for more survivability and better tools to augment my team.

[Gserpent]

...is honestly a joke.

WAR/SMN buffs? Who asked?
No WHM nerfs?
A practically nonexistent NIN nerf?
Even BLM pretty much just got a side-grade rather than a real nerf to its ridiculous Ice Mage playstyle.

BRD and GNB are still awkward to play, DNC is still crying itself to sleep, SGE is still very confused as to why it has effectively no protective capability and no crowd control.

Where are the role queues/party comp restrictions? I'm tired of being saddled with 4 DPS while the enemy team has a WHM+WAR--or on the other hand, having to play with 2 tanks+2healers and being unable to kill anyone due to lack of damage.

Can squex please hire a real balance team that actually knows what they're doing, and knows the weight of being able to patch only once every 2-3mo? If they want any sort of longevity for the game mode, I really hope they put more effort into balancing it. Otherwise, this will just end up as Feast 2.0, with every season dying 2 weeks after reset because nobody wants to play the mode outside of reaching rewards.

WAR probably needed a touch up here or there. SMN definitely needed a little help since they were largely outclassed by BLM in most aspects.

WHM is fine. It doesn't need any changes whatsoever.

NIN is fine. If it needs any changes, they could nerf Huton. But forcing NIN to burn mudra on defense guts their damage output, so I don't think it really needs nerfs.

BLM nerfs were pretty steep. Reduced shield on Burst and you no longer stun until 3 stacks on ice, both of which are substantial. Might see more SMN now.

BRD is awkward to play? Since when? It works great. GNB is awkward in the sense that you aren't guaranteed to have all three options for your special skill/Hypervelocity, but it's still quite effective as-is... just probably not what we'd all like it to be.

DNC is very strong, if it has at least one competent DPS player on the team. The 6.18 buffs will make it a little less reliant on needing a good teammate. SGE doesn't have defenses because it has some of the highest AOE burst damage in the game and a powerful buff as part of that burst.

Role/comp restrictions are not necessary. Teams with 4 or 5 DPS have the ability to obliterate people without needing to expend all of their resources; if you're failing to get kills, your team isn't switching targets or focusing targets properly. Teams with 4 or 5 tanks/heals have the ability to just grind the other team to death and win via attrition. If you're failing to secure kills or avoid deaths to burst, it's because your team isn't coordinating effectively or focusing targets properly.

[Myon88]

Summoner is still the weakest caster by virtue of not having any hard cc. In contrast to rdm with white resolution, and blm that needs no explanation. It absolutely needed that fester buff as most of its damage is just passive aoe pressure and it has miserable ability to confirm kills - the thing that really matters.

[Petite]

@

>WAR/SMN
my point is that those jobs didn't need any help to begin with.
I know, but I strongly believe Orogeny and Fester's potencies are now where they should have been from the start.

MCH on the other hand just keeps getting away with new buffs. That's the job that truly didn’t need any help to begin with. They have always outshined the other PhysR.
Just so everyone is aware: Bishop Autoturret now has a 24K AOE barrier potential; insane when contesting the crystal.

>NIN
I know most people would like to see NIN's LB reworked differently, but this change is a decent step forward considering 6.18 wasn't a major patch.

>BLM
I see where you're coming from, but in my eyes, a 2s multi-target Heavy is more impactful than a 1s micro-stun.
Thing is that the 1s stuns were excellent at baiting away Purify. When in trouble you don't have time to verify how long debuffs last and if you Purified too late on that 1s you wouldn't gain Resilience.
2s heavies are much more fair for a lvl1 3K damage Superflare usage.

>DNC
Being the red-headed step child of the ranged physical DPS with its 15y range instant casts has left it stranded awkwardly between melee jobs and ranged jobs.
DNC would be a pretty unfair kiter if it wasn't limited to 15y. SE purposely made DNC tanky because you are mean't to do Honing Dance drive-bys.
- 54K HP pool (more than all ranged jobs);
- Fan Dance's 10% damage reduction;
- 20% damage reduction while in Honing Dance;
- 4 charges of En Avant.

Play DNC more like you would play NIN and you'll find it much more satisfying:
Prepare Saber Dance > Starfall Dance > Honing Dance > spam Saber Dance so it goes off with Honing Ovation > use Fan Dance to add to your burst and help mitigate damage on your retreat > En Avant away.
(Don't overlap Fan Dance with Honing Dance. The percentages aren't additive).

Now all DNC needs is access to Purify while in Honing Dance and a tweak to their LB.

>SGE
has next to no options to peel for itself
Having watched a lot of Lucia Caritas' streams (probably Primal's best SGE) they definitely don't look easy to kill. You gotta abuse Icarus.
I'd recommend getting in touch with them. They stream a lot and reply to chat all the time.

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

100% agree with you on MCH, I forgot to bring that up. I don't know why it keeps getting quietly buffed--I suspected it'd start to get overbearing this patch and it looks like it has.

As for SGE tech, I'm by no means an easy to kill SGE either. But like everything else about its kit, the skill floor necessary to survive is so high compared to other jobs, for very little safety in exchange. I can Icarus around and juggle Kardia with the best of them, but at the end of the day if a MNK or NIN really wants me dead, I'm going to die every time. Maybe I should've led up front with some context, but I'm not some random trash hardstuck gold sage player. I hit Crystal in ~75 wins last season and consistently played with Top 100/Top 30's in my games.

[Gserpent]

Summoner is still the weakest caster by virtue of not having any hard cc. In contrast to rdm with white resolution, and blm that needs no explanation. It absolutely needed that fester buff as most of its damage is just passive aoe pressure and it has miserable ability to confirm kills - the thing that really matters.

SMN doesn't need hard CC. Mountain Buster is a draw-in, bind, and heavy all in one package with a pretty short cooldown. Draw-in effects are *immensely* powerful. SMN's biggest issue is that Slipstream is just kind of... there. It's very rare to have it actually do anything meaningful because you can't directly place it and the safe area is quite large. Something needs to change with that skill. That's probably all SMN needs.

Remember, SMN has the strongest buff in the game - it's literally giving Holy Sheltron to anyone they want. I don't think they need a stun when they instead bring an anti-burst buff like that.

[Petite]

if a MNK or NIN really wants me dead, I'm going to die every time

I'm not sure about NIN killing SGE easily, but I know MNK LB is still a 1 minute no-fun-allowed button against casters/healers. That's a big oof.