CC balance

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

Alright that last bit is fair, I admit I was pretty heated. But let's talk about the other stuff, if you don't mind.

>WAR/SMN
Sure, the changes to the individual abilities might be justified in a vacuum, but my point is that those jobs didn't need any help to begin with. I know plenty of people who were already confused at the 6.15 SMN buffs.

>NIN
I'm not saying that a reset reduction isn't enough. I honestly couldn't care less about the reset timer--that was never the main problem with Seiton, or even NIN as a whole. <=50% HP execution through Guard with 20y range? That's just too much. NIN has too much capability in too many areas, and it doesn't even make up for it by being the jack of all trades. Many of its tools are best-in-class for what they do. It's practically not even a melee job--it's a bursty caster assassin with area denial, damage mitigation, and unmatched mobility. Everybody knows NIN is one of the strongest jobs, and yet all it gets is a little slap on the wrist.

>BLM
I see where you're coming from, but in my eyes, a 2s multi-target Heavy is more impactful than a 1s micro-stun. The significant teamfight impact of an AoE Heavy is precisely why they took it away from Nightwing, and AST's Gravity. I understand that they took some strength off the top end of Umbral Ice, but the slightly upwards side-grade on the low end more than makes up for it.

>DNC
Being the red-headed step child of the ranged physical DPS with its 15y range instant casts has left it stranded awkwardly between melee jobs and ranged jobs. I don't think that simple potency adjustments will solve any of its issues, much like GNB.

>SGE
I can see DRG not needing cc, but SGE is tied for squishiest job + it has to expose itself to dangerous sightlines in order to cast. Which is fine, but it's frustrating that it has next to no options to peel for itself when the inevitable gank occurs, especially given the other healers' options (Miracle of Nature, Gravity, SCH's significantly greater protective capability). Kardia is awkward to use and rather underpowered; the skill floor is too high for little return. I don't understand why it doesn't proc on any casts besides Dosis, given how its PvE counterpart behaves. It's pretty much just for Toxikon II uptime. The Pneuma shield also behaves clunkily with server ticks, and universal Recuperate means that the healing is almost always wasted. Mesotes also has a high skill floor, and a difficult-to-maximize return. On the other hand, it's very easy to waste or misplace it--or to get knocked out of it and bursted by MCH/MNK, which I've seen more and more often lately.

Obviously I'm biased as a SGE main, but it truly feels like one of the weakest jobs--or more accurately, one of the most difficult to do well with. I think a single-tgt Heavy on Phlegma and more/stronger Kardia procs isn't too much to ask. I'll gladly trade away some of its big AoE damage in exchange for more survivability and better tools to augment my team.

[Petite]

@

>WAR/SMN
my point is that those jobs didn't need any help to begin with.
I know, but I strongly believe Orogeny and Fester's potencies are now where they should have been from the start.

MCH on the other hand just keeps getting away with new buffs. That's the job that truly didn’t need any help to begin with. They have always outshined the other PhysR.
Just so everyone is aware: Bishop Autoturret now has a 24K AOE barrier potential; insane when contesting the crystal.

>NIN
I know most people would like to see NIN's LB reworked differently, but this change is a decent step forward considering 6.18 wasn't a major patch.

>BLM
I see where you're coming from, but in my eyes, a 2s multi-target Heavy is more impactful than a 1s micro-stun.
Thing is that the 1s stuns were excellent at baiting away Purify. When in trouble you don't have time to verify how long debuffs last and if you Purified too late on that 1s you wouldn't gain Resilience.
2s heavies are much more fair for a lvl1 3K damage Superflare usage.

>DNC
Being the red-headed step child of the ranged physical DPS with its 15y range instant casts has left it stranded awkwardly between melee jobs and ranged jobs.
DNC would be a pretty unfair kiter if it wasn't limited to 15y. SE purposely made DNC tanky because you are mean't to do Honing Dance drive-bys.
- 54K HP pool (more than all ranged jobs);
- Fan Dance's 10% damage reduction;
- 20% damage reduction while in Honing Dance;
- 4 charges of En Avant.

Play DNC more like you would play NIN and you'll find it much more satisfying:
Prepare Saber Dance > Starfall Dance > Honing Dance > spam Saber Dance so it goes off with Honing Ovation > use Fan Dance to add to your burst and help mitigate damage on your retreat > En Avant away.
(Don't overlap Fan Dance with Honing Dance. The percentages aren't additive).

Now all DNC needs is access to Purify while in Honing Dance and a tweak to their LB.

>SGE
has next to no options to peel for itself
Having watched a lot of Lucia Caritas' streams (probably Primal's best SGE) they definitely don't look easy to kill. You gotta abuse Icarus.
I'd recommend getting in touch with them. They stream a lot and reply to chat all the time.

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

100% agree with you on MCH, I forgot to bring that up. I don't know why it keeps getting quietly buffed--I suspected it'd start to get overbearing this patch and it looks like it has.

As for SGE tech, I'm by no means an easy to kill SGE either. But like everything else about its kit, the skill floor necessary to survive is so high compared to other jobs, for very little safety in exchange. I can Icarus around and juggle Kardia with the best of them, but at the end of the day if a MNK or NIN really wants me dead, I'm going to die every time. Maybe I should've led up front with some context, but I'm not some random trash hardstuck gold sage player. I hit Crystal in ~75 wins last season and consistently played with Top 100/Top 30's in my games.

[Petite]

if a MNK or NIN really wants me dead, I'm going to die every time

I'm not sure about NIN killing SGE easily, but I know MNK LB is still a 1 minute no-fun-allowed button against casters/healers. That's a big oof.

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

I'm not sure about NIN killing SGE easily, but I know MNK LB is still a 1 minute no-fun-allowed button against casters/healers. That's a big oof.

NIN can kill whoever they want if they put their mind to it. That job just has so many options. And if they're not solo killing me, Raiju more than ensures that their dive buddy can get the job done. Plus, having 48k max hp means it takes that much less effort to get me into <=50% Seiton execution range.

I forgot to address this earlier, but when you said the NIN nerf was a "step in the right direction", that's exactly what I meant by respecting the weight of the long patch cycle. The mode and the season don't have the TIME for baby steps in the right direction. At this rate, it'll be a full year before jobs like NIN are addressed appropriately. If we have to live with a game state for 2-3mo, then the appropriate boldness and effort should be put into corrective measures when a job is clearly a huge over-performer.

[Petite]

NIN can kill whoever they want if they put their mind to it. That job just has so many options. And if they're not solo killing me, Raiju more than ensures that their dive buddy can get the job done. Plus, having 48k max hp means it takes that much less effort to get me into <=50% Seiton execution range.

Thinking back on it, you're right about your predicament. I just played against a good NIN and my DRG was shut down every 90s despite my best efforts at staying above 50% and avoid focus-fire. That NIN most likely thought I was my team's best hope and dedicated Seiton to me first and foremost. I get the feeling.

Also, I realized matches are still heavily decided by which team gets the better BLM. Their damage is still absurd.

[Gserpent]

I don't think they need a stun, but a silence on the donut portion of slipstream I would consider fair. It would actually serve its function as an area denial tool instead of a 4k dot which no one respects at all.

Silence is definitely too much, especially if it would be AOE. I was thinking more like a 10% Slow effect or something. Or the donut would give your allies 10% Haste.

NIN can kill whoever they want if they put their mind to it. That job just has so many options. And if they're not solo killing me, Raiju more than ensures that their dive buddy can get the job done. Plus, having 48k max hp means it takes that much less effort to get me into <=50% Seiton execution range.

I forgot to address this earlier, but when you said the NIN nerf was a "step in the right direction", that's exactly what I meant by respecting the weight of the long patch cycle. The mode and the season don't have the TIME for baby steps in the right direction. At this rate, it'll be a full year before jobs like NIN are addressed appropriately. If we have to live with a game state for 2-3mo, then the appropriate boldness and effort should be put into corrective measures when a job is clearly a huge over-performer.

NIN is balanced. You need to pressure them into using mudras on defense. That's the primary method of dealing with them - not necessarily trying to kill them, but forcing them to use Meisui or Huton so they have less offense available. If they need any nerf, I'd increase Shukuchi cooldown to 20.

I wouldn't mind seeing Seiton changed to "deals damage equal to target's HP" under the threshold instead of just plain death, though. That would allow for more counter-play with mitigation, shields, etc to compensate for it (similar to how you can survive being Odin'd by SAM if you have shields.) If that would result in the skill being too weak, I'd change its operation to deal the base damage and *then* check for threshold instead of how it functions now (it either deals damage or executes depending on threshold.)

[Katoar]

I'm not sure about NIN killing SGE easily, but I know MNK LB is still a 1 minute no-fun-allowed button against casters/healers. That's a big oof.

That's not true though. I had a monk in crystal top 100 ( the game was with people of top 100) it took him good 40s-50s to kill me but basically what happened was, I used card spread and macrocosmos on the party, run to the potions, heal with recuperate, used macrocosmos again and card spread, gravity, heal low hp allies, I ran out of mana at this point and had no way of healing myself back up and the party was still fighting so the mnk ended up killing me and I think they didn't use lb. I was playing ast

Point is, mnk can in fact kill healers if they focus solely on it.

[Myrha_Lhlalheva]

I think you're slightly misreading there friend. Petite is only saying that the LB is an almost guaranteed death button, but they never said that MNK was incapable of killing people normally.