Every inconvenience is a challenge.

[Eight]

Leave the Animas alone ; ; Traveling shouldn't be a inconvenient.

But it is......

[Jinko]

Have people forgotten that video games...are... time sinks.

THERE I SAID IT

CAT'S OUT OF THE BAG

They are supposed to be fun and entertaining also

[Matsume]

They are supposed to be fun and entertaining also

oh yeah...I forgot about that.

[Roaran]

Overcoming harship and inconvenient things itself is not fun. If you only focus on this little aspect, you're ignoring the most important reasons we play games in the first place.

We all play video games of various types because we have different tastes. Even those of us who play the same game have different tastes and are drawn to different parts of the game. But I'd say, for the majority of players, we play because, for whatever reason, we enjoy it.

To say then, for every player, the overcoming of inconvenience is a common source of enjoyment is so blatantly false. If you can't understand this then you're probably factoring in other things that typically come as a result of overcoming certain tasks.

Suppose there is some obstacle on a path. If there is nothing at the end of the blocked path, what reason is there for you to expend your time and effort to circumvent the obstacle? This thread makes the case that clearing the obstacle alone is fun...

Now, suppose there is a reward on the otherside of the obstacle. Clearing the obstacle itself does NOT become fun when a reward is added. All the obstacle can do at this point is add meaning and significance to the reward in proportion to the difficulty of overcoming the obstacle.

If you are following this post so far, then you might have already realized this, but... here's the big revelation:

Clearing an obstacle is only fun, when the actual act of clearing that obstacle is actually fun.

[Scarface]

Blame World of Warcraft or Canada.

THIS

/10char

[Starlord]

Overcoming harship and inconvenient things itself is not fun. If you only focus on this little aspect, you're ignoring the most important reasons we play games in the first place.

We all play video games of various types because we have different tastes. Even those of us who play the same game have different tastes and are drawn to different parts of the game. But I'd say, for the majority of players, we play because, for whatever reason, we enjoy it.

To say then, for every player, the overcoming of inconvenience is a common source of enjoyment is so blatantly false. If you can't understand this then you're probably factoring in other things that typically come as a result of overcoming certain tasks.

Suppose there is some obstacle on a path. If there is nothing at the end of the blocked path, what reason is there for you to expend your time and effort to circumvent the obstacle? This thread makes the case that clearing the obstacle alone is fun...

Now, suppose there is a reward on the otherside of the obstacle. Clearing the obstacle itself does NOT become fun when a reward is added. All the obstacle can do at this point is add meaning and significance to the reward in proportion to the difficulty of overcoming the obstacle.

If you are following this post so far, then you might have already realized this, but... here's the big revelation:

Clearing an obstacle is only fun, when the actual act of clearing that obstacle is actually fun.

But there also should be a middle ground for everything. Some for walking/running, Some for teleporting (if you don't feel like running/Chocoboing for a half hour from one side of the map to the next, and a good deal of time and difficulty for the content your actually doing... Everything has a balance, if you just Teleport walk a few feet and your there.. its like well screw the the entire game itself. That's just how I feel.

[Sephrick]

Have people forgotten that video games...are... time sinks.

THERE I SAID IT

CAT'S OUT OF THE BAG

Everything in life is a time sink.

But when people use the phrase in relation to a video game they're referring to things with little or no entertainment value.

In XI it took time to wait for an airship and to fight your way through a Promyvion. One is entertaining and the other is just an obvious method to slow the player's progress.

Doing ToAU missions by traveling around Vana'diel, fun. Waiting till JP midnight after each mission, time sink.

Fighting an HNM, fun. Standing in place for three hours waiting for it to pop just to see it pop claimed, time sink.

It doesn't matter how long something in a game takes. As long as its an engaging experience the whole time. That's kind of the point of any video game -- to entertain.

[Matsume]

Everything in life is a time sink.

But when people use the phrase in relation to a video game they're referring to things with little or no entertainment value.

In XI it took time to wait for an airship and to fight your way through a Promyvion. One is entertaining and the other is just an obvious method to slow the player's progress.

Doing ToAU missions by traveling around Vana'diel, fun. Waiting till JP midnight after each mission, time sink.

Fighting an HNM, fun. Standing in place for three hours waiting for it to pop just to see it pop claimed, time sink.

It doesn't matter how long something in a game takes. As long as its an engaging experience the whole time. That's kind of the point of any video game -- to entertain.

I thought FFXI Airships were fun. You actually had to ride them. It allowed players to interact with each other /check each other out and show off gear. Sometimes pirates attacked!

Also, I always enjoyed camping NMs for some odd reason. Even if I didn't get the claim, it was exhilirating. Just knowing that the pop window is open and could spawn t any seconds gets the adrenaline going and everyone is super edgy provoking normal lizards like it was lippin'lizzy 'imself.

[Malakym]

Inconvenience is just the wrong word to use. I think what the original source meant is obstacle.

Waiting 10 minutes for an airship was an inconvenience in XI, but was never "challenging" or worthy of being considered "gameplay." Waiting for the airship because it pulled away as you ran up to it plus flight time meant a player could walk away from their computer for 15 minutes.

I can play the "waiting for the airship" game without giving a dime to a developer. It's called washing my dishes, folding my laundry or taking out the trash -- because those are the sort of things I did during the airship wait inconvenience.

But still the quote removed from context isn't as sound as within. It's still making a case for an open market free of auction houses. He's saying why design a game around the "convenience" of auction houses when some players want to play the game as a crafter/shop keeper only.

Sort of how SE originally started to design crafting classes. An idea, sadly, that never came close to fruition. Now, just like the rest of the game, we're half way between content. DoHs that take forever to level for little reward because we have a psuedo action house and no content for them otherwise. They're not even allowed full access to the leve quests.

In his article he makes the case that the "inconvenience" -- which should be called "obstacle" -- of a game with no auction house is that a player has to put in effort to sell their wares. They can't just list it and forget it. That opens it up for what XIV originally intended, a social world where players get to know each other through a system of bartering and trade.




An interesting statement given the linked blog post.

On what gauge are we rating the difficulty of XI? Is it by amount of perceived inconveniences?

If so, XI may take the cake. But that doesn't mean there's any quality -- or discernible challenge -- in those inconveniences. XI was riddled with examples like waiting for the airship. Come to think of it, XI very much was a game based around waiting. Waiting for transportation. Waiting for a party to gather. Waiting for event cool down timers. Waiting for HNM pop windows. Waiting for the infamous "JP midnight." Waiting for an exp bar to slowly fill while mindlessly killing the same weak fodder. Waiting, waiting, waiting.

And after all that waiting, there was a glimmer of game play.

But I'd rather SE assume "inconvenience" means "obstacle."

I'd rather the "inconvenience" of having to talk to my fellow players to find the items for which I am looking than one of having to wait for content.

But if "inconvenience" is the mark of good design and supposedly fun and challenging entertainment than the gaming industry should have just called it quits with E.T. because it will never get much "better" than that.

Something is wrong with the forums, I'm hammering my fist into the 'like' button but it's not going up more than once.

[Noata]

I personally think there should be very little changes other then adding features for 2.0 for FFXIV. asking developers to waste there time on a world that is vanishing and being replaced seems like a waste of time. Remove anima so a few players can powerlevel for a few months till 2.0, what was i thinking of course we should focus more on what is going away, we can always push the 2.0 release back. The game has had anima from the start, it is nothing new. deal with it and stop griping. Try focusing on the big picture.

OP hits pretty true
I would have to say that humans love to accomplish more then anything else. to feel accomplished. This tends to be justified when danger, risk of life, or required skills to complete. They feel it is enjoyable. The problem with FFXIV is that the content is very spread out and then concentrated at camps. making large landscapre travel annoying. something that may or may not change. gotta wait and see