Every inconvenience is a challenge.

[Roaran]

I think the poster runs into a critical fallacy if he extends his view ANYWHERE beyond the area he takes it in. Specifically, if your goal is to create an environment for players to play store, and that is what is supposed to be fun; then his argument works.

But if the 'playing store' is not the purpose or the ends of the game itself or those playing it, then it is simply just an inconvenience for those who do not want it, and fun for those that do.

What Yoshi-P should realize is, FFXIV is a very broad game that appeals to many people who place different degrees of value to different areas of the game. His role is to satisfy and achieve the greatest possible amount of enjoyment for the players. In order to achieve this, you will not satisfy everyone to the fullest, so it is essentially a balancing game.

If Yoshi were to flatly accept the methodology of the developer in the OP, I think he would make a huge mistake, as development of an MMO does not allow for such black & white approaches.

[Xoo]

I think the poster runs into a critical fallacy if he extends his view ANYWHERE beyond the area he takes it in. Specifically, if your goal is to create an environment for players to play store, and that is what is supposed to be fun; then his argument works.

But if the 'playing store' is not the purpose or the ends of the game itself or those playing it, then it is simply just an inconvenience for those who do not want it, and fun for those that do.

What Yoshi-P should realize is, FFXIV is a very broad game that appeals to many people who place different degrees of value to different areas of the game. His role is to satisfy and achieve the greatest possible amount of enjoyment for the players. In order to achieve this, you will not satisfy everyone to the fullest, so it is essentially a balancing game.

If Yoshi were to flatly accept the methodology of the developer in the OP, I think he would make a huge mistake, as development of an MMO does not allow for such black & white approaches.

We, as humans, feel most alive when faced with danger and threat. This equates fun for anyone. If there is little danger of failure or 'death', we can safely assume that 99% would not find the event fun.

Right now, I can say that I only play XIV because it's just slightly better than doing nothing at all in my spare time.

[Roaran]

We, as humans, feel most alive when faced with danger and threat. This equates fun for anyone. If there is little danger of failure or 'death', we can safely assume that 99% would not find the event fun.

Right now, I can say that I only play XIV because it's just slightly better than doing nothing at all in my spare time.

Yet real life is vastly more dangerous than FFXIV. So if we are to accept your premise, you should choose to do things that are more dangerous in real life than FFXIV.

I also don't agree that danger and threat equate to fun for anyone.

Not everyone has the same idea of fun.

[Xoo]

Yet real life is vastly more dangerous than FFXIV. So if we are to accept your premise, you should choose to do things that are more dangerous in real life than FFXIV.

I also don't agree that danger and threat equate to fun for anyone.

Not everyone has the same idea of fun.

Whether in the real world or a virtual world, loss is loss, no matter what the medium. It's all relative. I never said I led an interesting life, but I do say I play a generally uninteresting game.

[Platinumstorm]

Inconveniences can be used as tools to add pacing to games, even mmos. The types of inconveniences you add are very important too, and the way you limit inconveniences is additionally as important.

Getting a group to tackle a dungeon, for example, is an inconvenience, but it also helps establish other game elements important to an mmo like social aspects and understanding other classes and their abilities better. When you accomplish something you can only do with a full group, then you also have a sense of that accomplishment. That's not to say you can't accomplish things solo, but that's why solo things are relegated to lesser events, like leveling up.

The way the current world design and transportation systems involved means abolishing anima makes no sense. I find it hard to believe people can pass judgement on whether anima can stay or go for 2.0 based on what little we know about the scale of 2.0's environment and the transportation systems set up.

The correct balance is one which makes traveling an adventure, and something that fosters exploration, and avoids the trappings of linearity and making everything instantly accessible, but doesn't mean going from the United States to Canada sends one on a trip that involves going over Antarctica to reach Canada. There is a balance that must be maintained or else something doesn't just become an inconvenience, but a complete waste a time. For example, currently organizing a group in Ul'dah to go to Darkhold without anima would be a complete waste of time. The travel distance, one which has no challenges, and one which fosters no exploration would actually take longer than Darkhold. That's not a good design decision, and if one of those people has internet problems or an emergency, it's all the way back to Ul'dah you go. It could be devastating to your group, and at the least it's a complete waste of over an hour. These are the kinds of mistakes FFXI made that turned away so many players, despite its moderate success as a title.

FFXIV 1.0 can't exist without anima, I don't know about FFXIV 2.0.

[Crica]

We, as humans, feel most alive when faced with danger and threat.

That is such bunk - you can not speak for everyone.

I feel most alive when I do things I enjoy, and things I enjoy do not include danger or threat.

Your "fact" has just been disproven.

L2realize not every person feels the same as you.

[Xoo]

That is such bunk.

Realize this is also your opinion, which is worth 100% of what mine is.

[Crica]

Realize this is also your opinion, which is worth 100% of what mine is.

Saying his statement was bunk is not opinion - his statement was that ALL humans feel the same - since I do NOT feel the same, his statement was bunk. (bunk means false, fyi)

[Jynx]

L2realize not every person feels the same as you.

You are aware there is a big difference from feeling "Alive" and having fun right?

I think the point they are illustrating is that adrenaline rush when we are in a "Fight or flight" scenario, wether in real life or in a simulated world the response can be triggered by a tense or stressfull situation. Of course there are people who can't cope with "Fight, flight" reaction and crumple under pressure.

But generally what most people find to be a "Thrill" is something that sends their brain into a chain of hyperactivity. Something you get excited about wether it's that really good part of the book you just got to and you can't put it down, or tanking Ifrit with red HP.

Whatever the situation that sets that off, is usually "Fun" (Please note the use of USUALLY) after the fact wether it was stressfull at the time being, it's the same reason people enjoy being scared the thrill, the excitement, the wonder of it all.

I think your misenterpreting the context of the quote.

Thousands of people "Enjoy" eating Pizza but I can't imagine alot who would say it made them feel "Alive" unless it was the first Pizza they have eaten after recovering from a 20 year comma or something.

[Crica]

I think the point they are illustrating is that adrenaline rush

Adrenaline rushes make me puke - no, I do not consider the feeling of having to puke to be "alive".

I consider the feeling I get when I do something I enjoy, which does not include puking from an adrenaline rush, a feeling of "alive" for me.

Again, not everyone feels the same - that poster stated everyone does, which is bunk.