Every inconvenience is a challenge.

[Tibian]

Because nothing says "fond," "fun," and "nostalgic," like sitting in Whitegate for hours waiting for a party to happen, only to get 7/8 and have the party disband because the tank went afk.
Because nothing says "amazing," like trying to do old content to progress the MAIN STORY that no existing player wants to do over.
Because nothing says "fantastic," like farming for six hours to afford gil to buy ammunition for your Corsair.
Because nothing says "engaging," like sitting in the same spot in Qufim leveling for hours of hours of mindless grind.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Stop white knighting XI and its "inconveniences," which were more like fortresses of agony and masochism.

Since this person worked on Star Wars Galaxies, I can only imagine his idea of "inconveniences" is vastly different from what you (coming from XI) have.

I never felt incapable of doing anything in Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE game ruining update.) SWG clearly balanced "gameplay" inconveniences appropriately, whereas XI just had inconvenience over inconvenience over inconvenience over a massive inconceivable system. There were plenty of times in XI where I just flat gave up and rage closed the client because I didn't want to deal with the stupidity of the game and it's "inconveniences."

XIV should look to XI for one thing: what not to become.

There should be barriers of skill. Not barriers of tedium, monotony, and TIME.

[Xoo]

There should be barriers of skill. Not barriers of tedium, monotony, and TIME.

Both of which XIV is truly lacking. They have yet to strike a balance, and I'm not at all sure they intend to.

[Jinko]

I love a good challenge but that doesn't mean I like unnecessary time sinks.

Knowing the difference sets a good dev team appear from a bad one.

Both of which XIV is truly lacking. They have yet to strike a balance, and I'm not at all sure they intend to.

11 never struck that balance either.

[Xoo]

Because nothing says "fond," "fun," and "nostalgic," like sitting in Whitegate for hours waiting for a party to happen, only to get 7/8 and have the party disband because the tank went afk.
Because nothing says "amazing," like trying to do old content to progress the MAIN STORY that no existing player wants to do over.
Because nothing says "fantastic," like farming for six hours to afford gil to buy ammunition for your Corsair.
Because nothing says "engaging," like sitting in the same spot in Qufim leveling for hours of hours of mindless grind.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Stop white knighting XI and its "inconveniences," which were more like fortresses of agony and masochism.

Since this person worked on Star Wars Galaxies, I can only imagine his idea of "inconveniences" is vastly different from what you (coming from XI) have.

I never felt incapable of doing anything in Star Wars Galaxies (pre NGE game ruining update.) SWG clearly balanced "gameplay" inconveniences appropriately, whereas XI just had inconvenience over inconvenience over inconvenience over a massive inconceivable system. There were plenty of times in XI where I just flat gave up and rage closed the client because I didn't want to deal with the stupidity of the game and it's "inconveniences."

XIV should look to XI for one thing: what not to become.

There should be barriers of skill. Not barriers of tedium, monotony, and TIME.

-In a more engaging response, it was your choice to sit in Whitegate for hours with your flag up and taking no initiative to start your own.

-Can we say Dzemael Darkhold? If you can say it, you can sing it!

-People farm all the time in this game - to be able to afford a piece of Lv35 gear. Hell, I just paid 60k for a stack of Cobalt arrows today.

-Because 2 hours of being carried by from Lv40-50 by a group of Lv50's at Natalan's Scarred Watchwolf camp is almost too much to ask.

Sorry, I want to play a game and not have it handed to me.

[Theplatter]

Because nothing says "fond," "fun," and "nostalgic," like sitting in Whitegate for hours waiting for a party to happen, only to get 7/8 and have the party disband because the tank went afk.

What game was this?

[Rokien]

I love a good challenge but that doesn't mean I like unnecessary time sinks.

Knowing the difference sets a good dev team appear from a bad one.



11 never struck that balance either.

You just need to go play bejeweled, no time sinks at all ever.

[Lior]

-In a more engaging response, it was your choice to sit in Whitegate for hours with your flag up and taking no initiative to start your own.

-Can we say Dzemael Darkhold? If you can say it, you can sing it!

-People farm all the time in this game - to be able to afford a piece of Lv35 gear. Hell, I just paid 60k for a stack of Cobalt arrows today.

-Because 2 hours of being carried by Lv50's at Natalan's Scarred Watchwolf camp is almost too much to ask.

Sorry, I want to play a game and not have it handed to me.

While FFXIV does lack in this area, Tibian is right in that many of the inconveniences from FFXI weren't really the kind that Mr. Koster (or myself) would want to see again.

Some examples of bad inconveniences:

- Overly-specific party mechanics and poor methods by which to form said parties.
- Content which has been de-incentivized to a point that it's more of a barrier than an interesting element of the game.
- Lack of diverse gameplay choices shoehorning players into dull and monotonous activities.

Inconveniences should create adventure, and none of the above do this. By contrast, here are some inconveniences from prior MMOs which I feel worked well:

- Quest objectives not being displayed on a map. Granted this one is pretty irrelevant with today's internet consumption, but developers have resorted to lazier quest/mission instructions because they no longer need to inform the player in order to guide them. As a result, players don't even have the choice of not looking up the objective location.
- Travel times. Requiring a time investment for travel keeps the world relevant and gives developers another area to design content, such as the FFXI boat encounters or the island chains in EverQuest.
- Dangerous areas acting as barriers. This is even less problematic in the age of miniscule death penalties, so why can't we see areas that require stealthy maneuvering? Kithicor Woods in EQ1 was a fantastic zone, becoming a literal death trap at night. I also enjoy that hybridization of high level and low level content, where you aren't guaranteed your safety because a zone is specifically designed for levels 1-5. It also causes high level players to cross paths with low levels more often, and makes the leveling-up game seem more lively as a result.

[Xoo]

While FFXIV does lack in this area, Tibian is right in that many of the inconveniences from FFXI weren't really the kind that Mr. Koster (or myself) would want to see again.

Some examples of bad inconveniences:

- Overly-specific party mechanics and poor methods by which to form said parties.
- Content which has been de-incentivized to a point that it's more of a barrier than an interesting element of the game.
- Lack of diverse gameplay choices shoehorning players into dull and monotonous activities.

Inconveniences should create adventure, and none of the above do this. By contrast, here are some inconveniences from prior MMOs which I feel worked well:

- Quest objectives not being displayed on a map. Granted this one is pretty irrelevant with today's internet consumption, but developers have resorted to lazier quest/mission instructions because they no longer need to inform the player in order to guide them. As a result, players don't even have the choice of not looking up the objective location.
- Travel times. Requiring a time investment for travel keeps the world relevant and gives developers another area to design content, such as the FFXI boat encounters or the island chains in EverQuest.
- Dangerous areas acting as barriers. This is even less problematic in the age of miniscule death penalties, so why can't we see areas that require stealthy maneuvering? Kithicor Woods in EQ1 was a fantastic zone, becoming a literal death trap at night. I also enjoy that hybridization of high level and low level content, where you aren't guaranteed your safety because a zone is specifically designed for levels 1-5. It also causes high level players to cross paths with low levels more often, and makes the leveling-up game seem more lively as a result.

My apologies, but all these posts really make me want to do is say, "If you have no motivation, no initiative, no drive to experience a (MMORPG) game and all of its inconveniences/timesinks/challenges, then please save yourself the headache and play an offline RPG".

Nothing that is worthwhile is, nor ever should be, easy in any respect.

[Peptaru]

Because nothing says "fantastic," like farming for six hours to afford gil to buy ammunition for your Corsair.

Six hours to afford ammo? You're doin it wrong! /endrofl. /endtroll.

[Lux_Rayna]

My apologies, but all these posts really make me want to do is say, "If you have no motivation, no initiative, no drive to experience a (MMORPG) game and all of its inconveniences/timesinks/challenges, then please save yourself the headache and play an offline RPG".

Nothing that is worthwhile is, nor ever should be, easy in any respect.

Oh look, another mmorpg "I know it all"...this is original.

First of all, your premise is highly highly highly faulty. It assumes that there is some universal concept of "easy" and "difficult" with the latter indicating long-term value. Different ppl find different things easy or difficult; it is impossible, therefore, to claim that something is worthwhile only if it is challenging. Nothing could be further from the truth.

As an example, let's take going for a walk. Going for a walk is not particularly hard, unless of course you are obese, out of shape, or have physical limitations. Would you say walking regularly is worthwhile? By your definition, no. But quite frankly, going on walks regularly has remarkable health benefits and many people find it extremely rewarding.

Now before you say, "but learning to walk was challenging," I will counter by saying that learning to do *anything* new is challenging. Still that doesn't make them worthwhile. Learning physics is hard as all get-out, but I imagine a fair amount of ppl would simply say its a waste of time, and many more wouldn't find it fun at all. So please, stop acting like you *know* what fun is. You know what fun is for you, for some, for many, but not for everyone; that is it.

The challenge in any MMORPG is to find a balance. Different ppl have different concepts of "fun" and sometimes the simplest things are the most worthwhile. Learning your first language was easy..you didnt even exert much effort..and look what you can do with it now. You can learn, you can teach, you can joke around with friends...this easy task became very worthwhile. The same goes in an MMO: you need a variety of things with varying difficulties to try and appeal to as many ppl as possible. There's no such thing as one size fits all. Here I thought this was common sense.