What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[aveyond-dreams]

Ok well if you want to change the direction of the thread back to Venat, I think it would have been far more interesting and made for a more entertaining experience if she really lived up to the whole fallen angel thing she quite literally has going on instead of pretending to be "everyone's mother." This woman isn't a benevolent goddess, she's a deceiver and one of the most destructive beings in the entirety of the mainline series outclassed only by the likes of Meteion and Jenova. Now, Venat wasn't that bad as a party member when was part of the Elpis trio but everything after (and before) that point is full of flimsy logic and desperate writing in attempt to retcon her into a positive figure, despite having very clear indications in Shadowbringers that she wasn't.




I suppose a better way to have gone about it would've been to draw inspiration from the likes of Sirene or the situation revolving Ryo Asuka. Sirene for being an interesting villainess and having a fight sequence so prominent that it's even being replicated in FFXVI, and Ryo for the way in which such a betrayal could've gone about. Deliberately create a problem that necessitated the summoning of Zodiark, then presenting herself as the solution in the form of a seemingly loving and protective goddess, despite her "creations" being little more than magic putty in the direct aftermath of the sundering. When they went out and said in the Live Letter that the races "evolved" into their current form, none of us pictured that they literally became that after being jello for an unspecified amount of time. All this while subconsciously trying to bring back the friend (the WoL) that would wind up becoming her undoing after having manipulated and fostered his growth to well beyond what she could manage.

I would absolutely have preferred a final fight against her, starting from the depths of the Earth where she resided in a literal lake of ice to winding up fighting on the barren surface of the moon where she originally had banished Zodiark. Partway through the fight, instead of riding Zenos dragon, why not Vrtra? Or better yet Midgardsormr? Naturally given that this is an MMORPG the WoL would likely win instead of the alternate outcome that resulted from Ryo and Akira's battle. It probably would have been a lot more satisfying than willingly salvaging whatever was left of Meteion and unleashing that back into the universe, and then being forced into battle with Zenos which many posters have mentioned that doing this went directly against how they felt their WoLs would react in that situation.

[Rulakir]

As much as I like that idea, I think it's clear the 'powers that be' weren't interested in an evil or even antagonistic Hydaelyn. I've said before, I thought she'd be presented similarly to Emet. Sympathetic motivations, but ultimately someone we had to stop. I still believe that it was Ishikawa's intention to present her as actually morally grey, especially as by action and deed she is unquestionably an antagonist to the extent of being compared to Emet (and Hermes), but likely had to rewrite it (hence the copious gaslighting) to appease others. Interviews from ShB would also hint at this being the case with Yoshi-P saying that we hadn't heard Hydaelyn's side of the story yet.

Venat remaining a 'good guy' would've meant either her memories were also erased or (as I've also mentioned before) going the Greek tragedy route where by attempting to avert the future, or 'prophecy', the WoL describes she ends up inadvertently causing it. It's one of the few ways I've thought of where she'd remain a likeable and tragic character. As it is, during her infamous cutscene, when she says, "All is excruciating pain. I breathe fire and torment." All I can think is, "Good, it's the least you deserve."

I think Venat having an opposing ideology, which was essentially the case, would've worked out fine. It's unfortunate that my character still canonically speaks of her in "fond" or "friendly" terms, depending on language translation, even if I choose that she wasn't justified or I believed someone other than her was. I suppose I begrudgingly have to accept it the same way Emet haters were forced to watch their characters reach out for him in anguish after Ktisis. It would just be nice if the MSQ itself (and the codex) acknowledged it and it wasn't tucked away in a side quest locked behind 'old' content.

At this point, I'm most concerned about the short stories. I've been giving Hydaelyn's summoners the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know the truth of the future or Venat's intentions. I think having 12 other people on board with genocide with no guarantee of success is just going to further tarnish their image as essentially a civilization of people on the edge all too willing to wipe each other out for conflicting mindsets, which aside from the two extremists we're introduced to doesn't appear to be the case at all. In fact, even the Watcher's dialog in the Omega quest chain would suggest Venat was so resolved in her convictions he couldn't change her mind if he wanted.

Most of us here were already unhappy with the messaging surrounding the Ancients in EW without the writers making it even worse. Having spoken with several in this thread (join the discord if you haven't :P), many of us have one foot out the door depending on how they're handled going forward.

[Misplaced_Marbles]

"everyone's mother."

This reminds me, she calls the sundered her children much in the same way the pixies call the leafmen their children. The fact is that they are their victims while she and the pixies are simply detached from reality.