What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lauront]

They simply had no reason to pursue that knowledge at large because dynamis wasn't predominant in Etheyris and it's also weaker than aether, so there weren't "practical" applications. Hermes's was a personal interest in learning about other worlds to try to fill his existencial voids, so think of it as his "hobby". But that doesn't mean they weren't capable of conducting such research if they had REASON to. Like preventing their race and planet from being wiped out from existance.




The flowers may have been created there but they're present in other places too. Scarce, but not exclussive to Elpis. But I don't think this is as relevant as you think it is.



And as I've mentioned before, Elpis is just one research facility. And one devoted to testing creations before letting them roam free. Its main purpose wasn't to design new creations inside it, but rather for everybody across the star to bring their creations and test them. Considering dynamis wasn't a practical avenue for them to explore it's not surprising that the only person with knowledge about it has it because of a hobby. But again, Elpis is JUST ONE RESEARCH FACILITY.


Having said all this, the "objective statements" you made afterwards crumble down except for the "other scholars" and Hythlodaeus parts. First one is explicitly stated in dialog, the 2nd can be inferred. Also, just because knowledge is scarce doesn't mean it's old, abandoned knowledge.

Yup. There is no getting around the fact that several scholars are credited with devising the solution they came up with, and not just Hermes, and so this strongly lends itself to what you're saying - and again, the scene with the Watcher premises this on Zodiark, aside from his many other functions, of being capable of using his dark aspect to reinforce those areas where the celestial currents grew weak, to create a shield of a kind, and not so much on dynamis. But certainly, all the same could be said of dynamis.

[dapperfaffer]

But the answer is knowledge and creation magic. Elpis's #1 resident depressed edgelord is stated not to be the only one with expertise in Dynamis. Is it so far-fetched to imagine working together and researching Dynamis-capable familiars, refining them so they don't go nuclear when encountering negative emotions perhaps? This isn't taking into account a system like they have in Ktisis, which seemingly gives Ancients access to Limit Break, but that might just be a contrived integration of a gameplay mechanic.

Speaking of Ancients and Dynamis, we have Seat of Sacrifice too. Yes, he was drawing power from Dynamis-capable beings. But then, this fact opens up the possibility to consideration at all. After all, a Primal is, again, a twist on creation magic, with souls. Areas of expertise of Lahabrea and Emet-Selch.

There is just... a lot that could have been done and explored.

Just as an aside and to add to:
Outside of explaining Dynamis and the 3 levels of aether, which may or may not come in later patches, everything you posted is what Hydaelyn did when she created the Source and the Thirteen shards, the blessing of light, and the story behind EW.

[Lauront]

You’re the one that is constantly grasping at straws, constantly trying to defend your crystal mom waifu when for all intents and purposes, she is a monster. You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else is, however i have given numerous examples, backed by actual in game knowledge and lore to support my
claims. Your claims have constantly been “because the story says so she’s a hero blah blah don’t think too hard about it.” Fact is, at the end of the day, she didn’t tell anyone what she knew. She kept it a secret and it led to her destroying her own entire world. I’d rather not continue this conversation though as you seem to be getting rather tired of being proven wrong time and time again, and so i bid you adieu~

For someone who claims to understand the lore well, the poster doesn't even do that particularly well:






Dynamis does not factor into their solution because said solution is designed without knowledge of the underlying cause, instead being designed to buffer the celestial currents where they are weak. Nowhere is it attributed solely to Hermes (as opposed to scholars, in the plural, as per the source), nor is an understanding of dynamis mentioned as relevant - for all we know they could've simply inferred the pattern in question, with Zodiark able to bolster it as required. And I am not familiar of any sources that attribute Zodiark to him specifically.

[EaraGrace]

For someone who claims to understand the lore well, the poster doesn't even do that particularly well:






Dynamis does not factor into their solution because said solution is designed without knowledge of the underlying cause, instead being designed to buffer the celestial currents where they are weak. Nowhere is it attributed solely to Hermes (as opposed to scholars, in the plural, as per the source), nor is an understanding of dynamis mentioned as relevant - for all we know they could've simply inferred the pattern in question, with Zodiark able to bolster it as required. And I am not familiar of any sources that attribute Zodiark to him specifically.

Do we want to argue whether Hermes was special for his knowledge of celestial currents again Lauront?

Timaios: Chief Hermes's work? A worthy subject, indeed...
Those beings which soar through the clouds, majestic and graceful, are ever a favorite of creators. Even now, with so many varieties in existence, the flood of newly imagined concepts continues unabated.
What sets the chief's creations apart, however, is how they benefit from his boundless knowledge of the celestial realm.
Birds that climb so high that they disappear from view. Others which traverse the boundless sky in moments, and all without riding the currents...
I know of none save he who can conceive of such marvels. Even we who prize elegance of form above all else are dumbfounded by his genius.

I hope people won't be subjected to more horrific personal attacks and defamatory comments from certain posters. That's usually the next step after the latest round of 'NOOOO, U MUST LIEK AND AGREE WITH CRYSTAL MOMMY' begins.

Yes I was being very defamatory when I got compared to a rape apologist in the last thread we discussed Venat in. Yes I’m the one with the personal attacks.

[Theodric]

I hope people won't be subjected to more horrific personal attacks and defamatory comments from certain posters. That's usually the next step after the latest round of 'NOOOO, U MUST LIEK AND AGREE WITH CRYSTAL MOMMY' begins.

[Kaurhz]

All this talk of Venat/Hydaelyn being genocidal. To be frank those that survived the sundering were just as bad..

[Lauront]

All this talk of Venat/Hydaelyn being genocidal. To be frank those that survived the sundering were just as bad..

Which is acknowledged - albeit with the caveat that they are doing so to reverse the very act she performed in the first place, while failing to give them a proper explanation of why, so much so that they saw it as their duty to restore both the star and their people. Yet few of us would say the rejoinings not genocides in their own way. The fact that she is genocidal, though, is often brushed under the carpet or contested, even to the point that it's claimed that the sundering did them no harm and just "created more life".

Do we want to argue whether Hermes was special for his knowledge of celestial currents again Lauront?

You can repeat it until you go blue in the face. It won't change the fact that it is not he alone who is credited with the design of Zodiark. Worse comes to worst? Strip mine any pertinent knowledge from his mind. He is a criminal at that point anyway.

[Theodric]

All this talk of Venat/Hydaelyn being genocidal.

Yes. It's an apt descriptor for the deliberate act of wiping out the Ancients and whatever other species did not survive the Sundering.

To be frank those that survived the sundering were just as bad..

As much strife as the Sundered have sown themselves, they largely did as much as a direct consequence of the Sundering itself. Often in an act of desperation to preserve their lives and territory.

It would be nice if it was possible to have a discussion about Venat without you posioning the well with an interpretation of her character that not everyone agrees with. The implication of your post is that you and people who agree with you are 'sucessfully seeing that the writing is bad, and 'correctly' pointing out that Venat is a genocidal monster'."

Don't you see that with language like that, there is no room for disagreement or different intrepretation? Just you and the people who agree with you, who are definitely right, and the foolish, misguided people who like the story and Venat (because they want to simp for thier crystal mommy or refuse to acknowledge genocide, or something. Not because they looked at the same story that you did and came to a different conclusion.)

You're free to draw whatever conclusions you so wish. You can go through my post history and see that I have consistently urged people to agree to disagree when it comes to these 'debates'. I'm a little lost as to how that is equal to 'poisoning the well'.

If you or anyone else happens to like Venat? Cool. Good on you - plenty of people like Zenos so it can't be said that characters with few, if any, redeeming qualities in the eyes of many cannot be popular.

Yes I was being very defamatory when I got compared to a rape apologist in the last thread we discussed Venat in. Yes I’m the one with the personal attacks.

I daresay that would be something to take up with the poster who supposedly did as much. It has nothing to do with me.

[KariTheFox]

If you or anyone else happens to like Venat? Cool. Good on you - plenty of people like Zenos so it can't be said that characters with few, if any, redeeming qualities in the eyes of many cannot be popular.

You're doing it again, right now. "You can like Venat, it's fine. Even though she has no redeeming qualities, just like Zenos"

Are you actually confused about how what you're doing is toxic? If your position was to just agree to disagree, your posts wouldn't be filled with constant asides about how Venat defenders want to be apologists for genocide because they love thier crystal mommy.