Volcanic Heart is a bad map

[Zachia]

Volcanic Heart is a bad map due to two factors. The multiple pillars scattered around the map giving melee dps and tanks a high advantage while giving healers and range dps a disadvantage. On top of that Warriors who can chain and drag you can push you into the firebombs lane explosions as well as other abilities from other jobs that push you into said aoe. You can also be cc'ed into it and as much as people want to claim skill it just gives specific jobs a bigger advantage over others who can't cc or push other enemies into a lane. For that reason I write this thread in hopes that the map Volcanic heart can be removed and replaced with a more friendly and balanced map.

[drtasteyummy]

1. You can dodge the map

2. It's the counter design to C9 which of course you didn't criticize since you're 1dimensional range andy

3. You're not even top 100 why even type

[SeiyaSoiya]

I don't understand why devs insist in adding this sort of stage hazard garbage to pvp modes they intend to be competitive
Volcanic heart is garbage and so is cloud nine
If your intent is to make a casual haha look at the pretty colors and press the buttons game mode weeee I'm flying ahahahahahahah oh nooooo bomberman then stop shoving in a competitive league and tier and rank and division system trying to appeal to the competitive audience

[Zachia]

ah is c9 the one that tosses you up in the air? I love the map design, the colors and the looks, and the balance of the walls map / structure isn't to bad. Wouldn't say its the best but its not the worst either. But that toss you up in the air is the most annoying thing ever. Even standing on the chocobo colorful icon doesn't do anything so i don't even know what that exists other than to indicate a timer when its about to hit. I usually use the defensive barrier and wait for the closest person to come tumbling before blowing my cds on half healthed victims. Which I feel is unfair but I like winning :/

[Annihilism]

VH and C9 aren't bad maps because of melee/ranged advantage, I honestly don't think there's such a thing, but I agree that map hazards have no place in ranked ques. Casual ques should be random maps every time you get a match or at least reduce map rotation time to 30mins. VH is especially annoying because it gives jobs like WAR unfair advantages, and how can someone say that's a skill issue if my job isn't capable of taking advantage of map hazards?

Ranked ques should ONLY be TP, having VH and C9 pop up in ranked is like a top Smash Bros. player asking the judges if they can turn on poke balls. The Palaistra is the equivalent of the final destination map or similar and items turned off, only your personal skill will allow you to win not random nonsense. Leave VH and C9 for the party fun time casual ques.

[Ransu]

C9 and VH are both trash maps.

VH is beyond annoying with its horrible collisions with the camera making it impossible sometimes to view specific angles. C9 and its twisters are just stupid in general. You're either annoyingly chasing down an inconsistent black feather or being forced to use guard to avoid the stupid wind gust. TP is the only good and well balanced map for competitive play.

[Gserpent]

Volcanic Heart is a bad map due to two factors. The multiple pillars scattered around the map giving melee dps and tanks a high advantage while giving healers and range dps a disadvantage. On top of that Warriors who can chain and drag you can push you into the firebombs lane explosions as well as other abilities from other jobs that push you into said aoe. You can also be cc'ed into it and as much as people want to claim skill it just gives specific jobs a bigger advantage over others who can't cc or push other enemies into a lane. For that reason I write this thread in hopes that the map Volcanic heart can be removed and replaced with a more friendly and balanced map.

This basically reads as "this killed me, so it's unfair and should be changed."

Both Cloud Nine and Volcanic Heart add effects which expand tactical options, and in turn also require players to keep those hazards and benefits in mind. If a WAR kills you by dragging you into a hazard with Blota... that's on you, man. Keep track of whether or not they've used Blota recently, make sure to have Purify or Guard ready in case you are pulled... or just LOS the WAR so that they can't pull you in the first place. Or even turn it around by stunning them before they can do anything. Cloud Nine's environmental effects are less interesting, since it's just a single binary global slap for 30k - the feathers are interesting, but the environment effect is not.

Ranged and casters perform just fine on Volcanic Heart, but it does require them to adjust their playstyle. Standing at max range is unlikely to be tenable in mid, so they must either cede ground to force the enemy to fight them in locations where ranged aren't at a disadvantage (which is pretty much anywhere except the center-mid area with the four pillars), or be aggressive and chase people around corners. Which is better will probably depend on what your team makeup is. Cloud Nine's mid is much the opposite, favoring ranged over melee and making it difficult for melee to initiate safely. Since all three maps are in rotation, it's fine. You can always just dodge queues while it's on a map you don't like. Pretty cheesy to me, tantamount to admitting you aren't good enough to learn how to deal with the peculiarities of each map, but if you're really focused on pushing rank, it's probably the smart thing to do.

[Apeman]

So you say to basically "git good' and then detail why range have a large disadvantage on the map. I also love your idea of just always make sure guard and purify are up...you do realize these actions have cooldowns right and may be needed to be used before this part happens?

[Ransu]

So you say to basically "git good' and then detail why range have a large disadvantage on the map. I also love your idea of just always make sure guard and purify are up...you do realize these actions have cooldowns right and may be needed to be used before this part happens?

Ignore serpernt, he never knows what he's talking about.

[Gserpent]

So you say to basically "git good' and then detail why range have a large disadvantage on the map. I also love your idea of just always make sure guard and purify are up...you do realize these actions have cooldowns right and may be needed to be used before this part happens?

Oh, so you mean you can be outplayed by the opposing team and forced to use these abilities and skills when there's an environmental hazard coming up that you'd prefer to save them for?

It's almost like the team that pays attention to these sorts of things and capitalizes on them is given an advantage of some sort. It's like it's a learned skill or something.

This right here is Exactly if not a bit above and beyond (compliment) of what I expect in a topic of debate. Either fully explain why i'm wrong and how or find a solution and provide it. This is quite amazing not that I can really understand the graph layout, however there looks like a lot less pillars and just bigger walls but at the same time longer lanes that give both melee and range a bit more of a fair balance. Thank you for your feedback ^_^

People *have* been explaining why you're wrong, though. It is a PEBKAC issue. You are not good enough at the game to overcome the challenges and changes in tactics required on maps with different layouts and hazards. And that's okay! Everyone was bad or unskilled once. But getting upset when people are correcting you and telling you that what you consider a problem, is not actually a problem, is just immaturity. Personally, I think every match of CC should be a random map instead of the existing rotation so that people can't dodge maps they dislike. People should be forced to learn all of the maps and how the differences in those maps require changes in tactics... in ranked, at least. Casual could still have the static rotation.

All three maps are well-made and well-designed, though none of them are *perfect.* C9 needs mid to be less open, for example. But VH and Palaistra are both pretty well designed and I don't think they really need any significant changes. There's plenty of open spaces in VH, just not in center-mid.