Volcanic Heart is a bad map

[Divinemights]

You know a lot of people here saying its a skill issue probably didn't even read it at all, and those that did like yourself didn't want to put to much thought into it before defending the company or pvp in general. The sheer amount of hostility on here because of a disagreement is sad. I'd rather be the worst player than an awful human being.

It is your choice.
Butt hurt when someone revealing truth that only means you have difficulty to take criticism and that usually built to failure in reality too.
The speech in this forum is monitor by forum moderator actively (also seems the only thing they are capable to do)
If you are unable to accept this modest language, it is too bad.

[Zachia]

Call it what ever you want to justify the poor behavior here on the forums. When people can call others trash, tell others they suck and don't deserve an opinion on a public forum and then defend those people and call it out as "can't take criticism" and their posts here aren't removed but upvoted by fellow community members it makes one doubt that there is a moderator. Plus "Your" truth is only a delusion put out there to protect the mental state that this is all their is to life and this is the pinnacle of achievement you as a human being will accomplish. Because if it wasn't people wouldn't die so hard on this hill but here we are.

[Divinemights]

Call it what ever you want to justify the poor behavior here on the forums. When people can call others trash, tell others they suck and don't deserve an opinion on a public forum and then defend those people and call it out as "can't take criticism" and their posts here aren't removed but upvoted by fellow community members it makes one doubt that there is a moderator. Plus "Your" truth is only a delusion put out there to protect the mental state that this is all their is to life and this is the pinnacle of achievement you as a human being will accomplish. Because if it wasn't people wouldn't die so hard on this hill but here we are.

Still don't care, no one here is your typical kindergarten teacher that must do sweet talks and language used here is already very softcore compares to other gaming discussion forum.
Your starting tone isn't exactly bright either
Instead something like "I am having trouble as range and I think there is issue with map design of Volcano", you choose to put yourself on highest ground and claiming map is bad design with no evidence

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

just vibing and actually liking Volcanic Heart, favourite map

Can see how you guys feel about stage hazards, but at least in case of VH you don't have to hit the chocobo feather, use Guard or get hit for 30000 dmg, you can actually use the arena to your advantage both defensively and offensively. You are less likely being chased down if Bomb lines come crashing down your lane, however standing in these lines makes you highly vulnerable to aftereffects of hard CC (Stun, Sleep, Bind, Charmed), at least that is how I see it.

Regarding the argument about walls, I'd argue walls are a massively necessary evil in PvP, especially since they shortened the average time to kill with the 6.1 PvP overhaul. However, I could argue that the position of the speedlane walls make for some nice coddling.

Conversely, mid point + transition from 2nd to final point on Cloud9 are open space nightmares, wanting either team to effectively avoid confrontation until the crystal sits in a location with at least one favourable wall to play around.

Here an awfully simplistic birdseye view made in paint, highlighting the combat zones being a heaven for passive players since engaging into these zones tends to require either a LOT of resources (premature Guard to bait for example) or a lot of commitment from your whole team to make a push work, generally only seen in higher levels of play.



Here is what I'd do to the map to break the horrible midpoint footsie battle stalemate and making approaching the enemy less of a ballache.
- purple = new walls
- healthpack locations adjusted
- if neither 2nd point is captured, then the wind pad will lead to a location closer to mid, but as an alternative route to break stalemates, but with a weakness of being somewhat in the open



Goal of the triangular elements on mid is to reduce how much you can coddle safely in a corner, the additional wall along travel path both serves as protection for attackers against people who hang around bridge but also for defenders who need a shorter distance to a wall for defensive purposes.

Pillars added on 2nd -> Last to give an alternative route to approach the crystal without standing completely in the open.

Healthpack locations for 2nd -> are adjusted to be more accessible to either side, for middle it is a replacement due to the added triangles blocking the deep corners.

Feel free to criticise btw, I want to learn / get better at map design for PvP purposes outside of FFXIV, so input (with reasoning to "why") is highly appreciated.

[Zachia]

This right here is Exactly if not a bit above and beyond (compliment) of what I expect in a topic of debate. Either fully explain why i'm wrong and how or find a solution and provide it. This is quite amazing not that I can really understand the graph layout, however there looks like a lot less pillars and just bigger walls but at the same time longer lanes that give both melee and range a bit more of a fair balance. Thank you for your feedback ^_^

[Baxcel]

I actually prefer Volcano as a tank in pvp but I also like the cloud one somewhat too.. the one in old Shar is the one I hate.Haye.. it's so boring and the lack of hazard just bores me, I already deal less damage then the other classes even the healers in pvp so a map that will punish people for not being aware is great

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I actually prefer Volcano as a tank in pvp but I also like the cloud one somewhat too.. the one in old Shar is the one I hate.Haye.. it's so boring and the lack of hazard just bores me, I already deal less damage then the other classes even the healers in pvp so a map that will punish people for not being aware is great

On a similar opinion wiith you, but as a vanilla map so to speak it is okay to not have any stage hazards.

However the speedlanes are a bit weird to utilise, which together with the nightmarish midpoint without any walls to approach and even letting ranged have a corner they can safely shoot over... rough times for melees and tanks until the crystal swings, then you have walls to play around.

[Mistress_Irika]

Volcanic Heart is a bad map due to two factors. The multiple pillars scattered around the map giving melee dps and tanks a high advantage while giving healers and range dps a disadvantage. On top of that Warriors who can chain and drag you can push you into the firebombs lane explosions as well as other abilities from other jobs that push you into said aoe. You can also be cc'ed into it and as much as people want to claim skill it just gives specific jobs a bigger advantage over others who can't cc or push other enemies into a lane. For that reason I write this thread in hopes that the map Volcanic heart can be removed and replaced with a more friendly and balanced map.

It's a bad map to play rank on. That said, if I want to have an easy time climbing playing a range class I would rather grind the volcanic map. That's just me though. Everyine has their own opinions.

Truth be told I am having a hard time understanding why range is supposedly in a disadvantage on that map. They have multiple pillars to use for LOSing opponents making it easier to avoid damage. I'm curious to see what exactly am I missing since I still havent hit Crystal.

[Apeman]

It's a bad map to play rank on. That said, if I want to have an easy time climbing playing a range class I would rather grind the volcanic map. That's just me though. Everyine has their own opinions.

Truth be told I am having a hard time understanding why range is supposedly in a disadvantage on that map. They have multiple pillars to use for LOSing opponents making it easier to avoid damage. I'm curious to see what exactly am I missing since I still havent hit Crystal.

Melee spend there time up close to their targets and don't have to deal with line of sight issues generally. Having enemies run around pillars when you are trying to use actions that require cast times gives enemies much more time to run around corners which forces you to try and stay closer or change targets which can be a real problem. As a person who plays bard getting closer to enemies lowers my damage from my main attack from 6000 to as low as 4000 which is quite a bit.

[Ransu]

Melee spend there time up close to their targets and don't have to deal with line of sight issues generally. Having enemies run around pillars when you are trying to use actions that require cast times gives enemies much more time to run around corners which forces you to try and stay closer or change targets which can be a real problem. As a person who plays bard getting closer to enemies lowers my damage from my main attack from 6000 to as low as 4000 which is quite a bit.

It also gives you LoS though which makes it easier to get away from being dog piled. It works both ways.