Who knew the 6.15 Omega Quests… (Spoilers)

[Rulakir]

“This dude is just a simp” is quite frankly such a lazy way to read into the Watcher. Remove any autonomy and just assume their down bad. That certainly makes analysis easy, I should start doing that with Elidibus and Emet!

He's a creation of Hydaelyn. I don't recall a single one of them not thinking she's the bestest ever. I wouldn't call it lazy as much as accurate. I would certainly disagree with any assessment that he's not biased in her favor at a bare minimum.

Also, you don't have to remove agency from Emet and Elidibus, the time loop already did that.

I just happen to see a lot more dissatisfaction with it here than I do on, say, Twitter (which knowing Twitter is kind of ironic).

Word's been getting around that the forums are the only place where you can discuss EW critically, so I'm not surprised.

But to use Eara's own past words, when all who oppose you are consistently using bad-faith arguments and generally acting rather nasty why even bother with the trivialities and "nice masks" as it were.

The unfortunate conclusion we all arrive at eventually.

[SannaR]

Reading the comments here it seems like I'm of the somewhat unpopular opinion that I actually enjoyed Endwalker's story for the most part. The central theme really struck a personal chord with me. You're all allowed to feel however you want about the game, though I will comment that a lot of you seem determined to interpret certain characters in the most negative way possible. Some of you are also being unnecessarily hostile to each other which I find kind of disheartening, but this is an online forum so I probably shouldn't expect much better.

Actually many like it. It's just a few who tend to as you said interpret things in such a negative and visceral way. That many a thread gets derailed into them showing how much they dislike a decision made by a character that after awhile it gets back to nitpicking at the smallest granule. Only to have the rest back the others up using so similar phrasing you'd think they were only doing so in order to lessen any alt accusation. But hey its just a game and no one should care about if you like or dislike a bunch of pixels right? As long as both sides can air out why they might have chosen the first, last or a specific person it should all be dandy and if there's a disagreement you should just agree to disagree. But uh don't worry they don't really dislike the character just the choice(s) they made. Even though they haven't been fans of said character since 3.2 and for some even longer than that cause we can't have benevolent gods in a JRPG, am I right? Especially after we proved that the Catholic Church stand in was actually evil.

[Theodric]

There's very little that is 'benevolent' about inflicting genocide upon one's own species. That aside, threads related to Venat would not be 'derailed' if not for the bizarre insistence that everybody 'has' to like and agree with the character in question.

[SentioftheHoukai]

Actually many like it. It's just a few who tend to as you said interpret things in such a negative and visceral way. That many a thread gets derailed into them showing how much they dislike a decision made by a character that after awhile it gets back to nitpicking at the smallest granule. Only to have the rest back the others up using so similar phrasing you'd think they were only doing so in order to lessen any alt accusation. But hey its just a game and no one should care about if you like or dislike a bunch of pixels right? As long as both sides can air out why they might have chosen the first, last or a specific person it should all be dandy and if there's a disagreement you should just agree to disagree. But uh don't worry they don't really dislike the character just the choice(s) they made. Even though they haven't been fans of said character since 3.2 and for some even longer than that cause we can't have benevolent gods in a JRPG, am I right? Especially after we proved that the Catholic Church stand in was actually evil.

I mean, if nothing else you'll surely never mean ME with that little not nearly as subtle dig as you thought. Seeing as how I'm as far from a male Hyur as is possible and don't intend to change. But alts, amirite? Thordan's a bit of a lazy pick btw, nobody with any sense doubted he was precisely what they framed him as, and would end as such antagonists inevitably do. Ofc, I thought it was odd they'd give him a motivation as sympathetic as "I know Nidhogg and his Brood won't stop until we're all dead, should we just lay down our arms and die son mine?" and then just make him primal-zilla with little fanfare. Gave us a little taste of the future treatment of sympathetic villains though, to be sure.

There's very little that is 'benevolent' about inflicting genocide upon one's own species. That aside, threads related to Venat would not be 'derailed' if not for the bizarre insistence that everybody 'has' to like and agree with the character in question.

Yeah, uh. I always wonder how low some posters opinions of other's intelligence must be if they truly believe some posters can't sus out how "Lacking reading comprehension" or "Didn't understand the plot" basically boils down to "I think you're pretty stupid, here's why the Essay mk. XXXVVIII" even if they don't say as much ad verbatim. Another facet of the dangers of passive-aggressiveness on the forums, though that's another matter.

[Slatersev]

He's a creation of Hydaelyn. I don't recall a single one of them not thinking she's the bestest ever. I wouldn't call it lazy as much as accurate. I would certainly disagree with any assessment that he's not biased in her favor at a bare minimum.

Also, you don't have to remove agency from Emet and Elidibus, the time loop already did that.



Word's been getting around that the forums are the only place where you can discuss EW critically, so I'm not surprised.



The unfortunate conclusion we all arrive at eventually.

[/QUOTE]

The Watcher goes out of his way to tell Omega it should come up with his own conclusions on the matter:

Its funny, for as much as this thread claims the Watcher is to biased in his stance to be trusted, he's explicitly fine with people coming to there own conclusions and in fact encourages it and doesn't go out of his way to force his own opinion on anyone.

It's extra funny when posters here keep talking about the writers writing "propaganda" because they decided it was to nice to one fictional character over the other.

Some pretty poor "propaganda" going on there, where what would logically be the most biased person in the setting being totally fine with disagreement and actively telling others to come to there own conclusions. And not getting in any way defensive of finger waggy if you directly lay it on his creator.

[EaraGrace]

As for the Fates, multiverse theory exists for a reason.

Sucks that the many worlds theorem is deterministic and would be more compatible with the Fates than other theories.

Assuming that what the Fates say go is just indolent, it's no better than submitting to Zeus because he said so and allowing him to have his way with you. Are we supposed to just "trust them?" They have repeatedly fucked people over because it was either convenient or because it led to the outcome they preferred, and damn all the "worthy sacrifices" that unfortunately had to be permitted on the way to this grand vision of the ideal future. Naturally these sacrifices are typically families just looking to survive another day in relative comfort, how sinister of them. If the comparison reeks of another example that just "knows best and we should trust them to guide our path forward", well that was intentional and I'm tired of pretending it's not.

Oh Twelve I regret making an off handed comment about the Fates.

He's a creation of Hydaelyn. I don't recall a single one of them not thinking she's the bestest ever. I wouldn't call it lazy as much as accurate. I would certainly disagree with any assessment that he's not biased in her favor at a bare minimum.

Also, you don't have to remove agency from Emet and Elidibus, the time loop already did that.

A creation based on the personality and memories of a person who lived in the past. There’s nothing to suggest he felt any differently.

And honestly that’s about the only way to justify what they did. I don’t even agree with that theory and it’s still the closest thing to making them defensible.

[Iscah]

Also, you don't have to remove agency from Emet and Elidibus, the time loop already did that.

They haven't lost agency at all. It's still their own actions and decisions that will create the future, even if somebody else knows what will happen. Unless Hydaelyn is manipulating their every move, they are still in control of what they do.

The only person robbed of agency by the time loop is Venat herself, because she remembers what we told her and now apparently feels she has to make decisions based on what she has been told must happen, like deliberately letting the few Unsundered avoid the spell.

[SannaR]

There's very little that is 'benevolent' about inflicting genocide upon one's own species. That aside, threads related to Venat would not be 'derailed' if not for the bizarre insistence that everybody 'has' to like and agree with the character in question.

Who's been insisting that anyone has to like or agree with her? Most of the time I see those who by now just come off as well insisting that what she ended up doing be the ones who do the derailment. Insisting that everyone know how craptastic her choice is and how because of it she must be the absolute worst person ever. Even more worse than Anakin who did horrible stuff even before order 66. Either I'm blind or there hasn't been any real you must like her and her choices or we'll start kicking puppies. at least not in the lore section.

I like her but I as I've stated more than once do believe that her choice of sticking with going along with Herme's test was the dumbest thing she ever probably did. Yet I have chosen to accept it and move on due to just that well we wouldn't be playing the game as you need to get to the sundering somehow.

Now, could it have been written or shown better? Sure. Heck I've also stated more than once how that I'd like more of the details of things that happened between our time in Elpis and a scene we've been shown three different times in three different ways now. Would I like it if the devs gave us a snippet of an alternative time line where the sundering didn't "need" to happen like we got with the 8UC? Sure, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

I just don't see the dev team pulling a Wings of the Goddes, Abyssea, or Rhapsodies of Vana'diel where we got shown and told of times the MC failed. Sometimes a few times and even died. Or that the world the game is set in is just a fever dream and the side of light didn't win the war against the dark twenty years prior to the year the game starts in.

[aveyond-dreams]

Who's been insisting that anyone has to like or agree with her? Most of the time I see those who by now just come off as well insisting that what she ended up doing be the ones who do the derailment. Insisting that everyone know how craptastic her choice is and how because of it she must be the absolute worst person ever. Even more worse than Anakin who did horrible stuff even before order 66. Either I'm blind or there hasn't been any real you must like her and her choices or we'll start kicking puppies. at least not in the lore section.

Reddit, twitter, discord, and so on. The places where the playerbase appears on the surface to be so friendly and inviting yet turns hostile the moment you speak out against characters like Venat or G'raha, or say that you like the antagonist factions of Garlemald or the Ascians.

[SannaR]

I mean, if nothing else you'll surely never mean ME with that little not nearly as subtle dig as you thought. Seeing as how I'm as far from a male Hyur as is possible and don't intend to change. But alts, amirite? Thordan's a bit of a lazy pick btw, nobody with any sense doubted he was precisely what they framed him as, and would end as such antagonists inevitably do. Ofc, I thought it was odd they'd give him a motivation as sympathetic as "I know Nidhogg and his Brood won't stop until we're all dead, should we just lay down our arms and die son mine?" and then just make him primal-zilla with little fanfare. Gave us a little taste of the future treatment of sympathetic villains though, to be sure[/I].

You an alt of the suggested poster? No. Thordan didn't just want to end the Dragonsong war though. He wanted to end the war and then also bring the whole world under the Ishgardian banner. I actually had hopes that he wasn't exactly the way he ended up. Or that he had one of the Heavensward killed cause they weren't 100% on board with the kind of behavior the Ward got up to when not in the eye of the public. Replacing him with a guy who must have failed at becoming a dragoon with how high he jumped in order to dodge bullets as a caster. I only brought it up as the whole religion and or the church is highly corrupt at times shows up in the same media where you later find out that God is also bad and needs to be put down. This was the going thought of a few even before the 3.2 artwork was shown and just grew before we learned that Hydelean wasn't God but a Primal.

That you must not trust her and that she must be bad, right? I mean she can't be 100% good or good but have a flaw or two. Like the Goddess Etro from FF XIII, or Altana from XI. Where they cared about mortals and a choice they made ended up having some really bad consequences. Now those who were suspicious of her back then never outright stated that she must be due to already having the corrupt church trope show up, but man did they hint that was part of their reasoning.