Just Another Housing Complaint

[Fybrile]

Doubling down on being rude and irrational.

Alright. Tried to offer you an out with a smidge of self-respect. But, I see now that I was wrong in my previous assessment that name-calling was beneath you. I guess it's right in your wheelhouse.

I don't really believe this post deserves a response, but I will attempt to provide one nonetheless. Mostly because I'm hopelessly optimistic that if people really understood me, they'd stop being rude.

1. I did make the argument against apartment. Literally on this page, a few posts above.

It went: "Well, that's not exactly true. There's having a chocobo stable, a garden, and a cheap teleport point close to one of the major cities. These have an impact upon the rest of the game. Not to mention the fact that having an impact on the rest of the game isn't a prerequisite for importance to players. I mean, aesthetics and displaying your loot and achievements are a known and popular part of playing an MMORPG. Just because it's decorative in nature, doesn't make it of lesser importance."

Earlier in this thread I mention, also, having an exterior, and I believe I also mentioned the neighborhood aspect. These are all aspects of houses that are not present in apartments (except the cheap teleport).

It's not up to me to spoonfeed you the contents of this thread. If you want to be a child, at least make sure you aren't saying someone's never made a point when they quoted you their points a few posts above.

2. It's not relevant for me to know how video games work. I don't know how computers work either, but I'm sure going to complain when I buy one that doesn't work. Keep in mind this is a complaint thread because, when I clicked "provide feedback", this is where SE directed me. There is literally no other venue to provide feedback. I don't need to be a programmer to understand my own thoughts and impressions. If you don't agree with my feedback, you're always free to just move along rather than helping me bump my thread and gaining my OP more likes.

3. Luckily, SE has come out and said many, many times (and reiterated through their actions) that they agree with me. They claim to desperately want to add more personal housing. That's not in question. SE shares my opinion. I'm not trying to convince them their system is broken. They've already come out and said as much through their reiterated apologies for not providing enough housing. I'm just trying to get them to keep making the fix a priority. While instance housing is one possible fix, it's definitely not one I or players like me are married to. Additional wards, additional subdivisions, additional districts, or even just adding a balcony or patio to apartments to benefit from the utilitarian parts of housing will do.


4. I think your point in the fourth paragraph is not entirely accurate. If SE was thinking just monetarily, they would have put houses on the online shop years ago and made money hand over fist. No, strange as it sounds, I think the housing shortage stems from their desire to do the right thing, and their desire to do the best possible thing, without acknowledging they don't have the resources to do it. I choose to take the developer at his word when he says they just can't get their hands on servers. That's just my feeling. Can't know what's going on in the developer's office.

5. I'm not against incremental changes. I don't think I claimed to be against incremental changes. And I don't think most players who agree with me are against incremental changes. But, the current rate of incremental changes is just not enough. Player base is growing exponentially faster than housing plots, which is making the situation worse, not better, despite the previous incremental changes.

I think I've responded to most of your points despite your rudeness. I hope, if you choose to continue to respond, it will be a bit more civil and a bit less impassioned.

[Drkdays]

Like I said, some people just want to fight. Never try to disprove someone. It causes real pain and pain leads to retribution. Just restate your opinion and provide context. If some one comes along and says, "No, you're wrong!" just restate your feelings on the matter. Don't counter them; that just sidetracks you from the main issue, essentially giving them what they wish and ALLOWING them to inflict that same pain on you.

Some people get a kick out of hurting others and such tactics kill debates and turn it into a personal grudge match. If it gets to that point, you've already lost.

[Aldotsk]

They gave us apartments, and the housing malcontents spurned the apartments. Instanced houses are not much more than bigger apartments; there is no reason to think the malcontents won't spurn them, too, once they realize how much more prestigious and desirable the neighborhood houses are. Many will just declare "I don't want it" and demand more neighborhood houses.

Therefore, instanced houses will not end the salt, and I think SE understand that.
If they do, they won't waste resources implementing it.

The issue is, apartments aren't a solution to everyone's issues with housing.

It doesn't matter how many extended rooms devs release for apartments. It isn't the same thing as owning a house. Period. It's like saying in reality, owning a penthouse apartment is same as owning a mega mansion when it's not.

People want to decorate outdoor house looks, they want to place outdoor furnishings. But it doesn't mean they want a neighbor.

There are majority vocals who had been speaking out they want more instance housing and their own ward to choose their own versus minority who says they prefer neighbors with limited size plots with gated properties.

[Jojoya]

I am unable to see any reason to bring up system from dead mmorpg.
The games didn’t survive because of its housing system only shows housing system is a flavor to have but not a necessity.
Even Skyrim Online is still alive, it’s so called housing system got nothing to attract me to play the game.
Every game has their own signature feature and this Ward system is rightly FF14’s

If everyone is going to design a system same way, didn’t we also how that idea failed miserably.
Elden ring slapped, spitted, and stomped every single rpg maker’s face is the best proof.

A dead MMORPG wouldn't have active servers for players. It may not have a population the size of WoW or FFXIV but the few times I've logged into RIFT in the past 7 months I've always run into other players.

You're right that housing isn't a necessity. Neither is any other single piece of content in a game. It's the collective experience that attracts players to MMORPGs.

Elden Ring is not a MMORPG. Don't go comparing apples to oranges.

Is there also non-instanced neighborhood housing like here in Rift?

I ask because I see no chance at all of SE getting rid of the current (non-instanced) neighborhood houses .

Rare mounts are desired for only one reason: they are hard to get.
Housing is no different, and easy-to-get houses will always be devalued as long as hard-to-get neighborhood houses are in the game. As a result, the continued existence of the neighborhood houses will make instanced housis seem second-rate by comparison -- just like apartments seem to be viewed now.

They gave us apartments, and the housing malcontents spurned the apartments. Instanced houses are not much more than bigger apartments; there is no reason to think the malcontents won't spurn them, too, once they realize how much more prestigious and desirable the neighborhood houses are. Many will just declare "I don't want it" and demand more neighborhood houses.

Therefore, instanced houses will not end the salt, and I think SE understand that.
If they do, they won't waste resources implementing it.

You see no chance. That doesn't mean there is none if players are vocal enough about the need.

If Island Sanctuary can exist, so can better instanced housing.

Also, not sure where you get the idea that instanced houses would be no better than slightly bigger apartments. The smallest Dimensions in RIFT are still bigger than mansion plots in this game. A couple of the largest ones are close to the size of New Gridania.

Nothing will end salt. There are people who go through life salty, never satisfied. Give them what they ask for and they'll find something else to complain about.

But a good instanced system will certainly reduce the salt significantly.

[Aldotsk]

My question is, how does anyone know it's going to be negatively affecting people by releasing instance housing when it was never really there in first place?

and don't talk about apartment as instance housing because that argument at this point is 200% trolling and you aren't really here to defend anti-instance housing.

[Divinemights]

A dead MMORPG wouldn't have active servers for players. It may not have a population the size of WoW or FFXIV but the few times I've logged into RIFT in the past 7 months I've always run into other players.

You're right that housing isn't a necessity. Neither is any other single piece of content in a game. It's the collective experience that attracts players to MMORPGs.

Elden Ring is not a MMORPG. Don't go comparing apples to oranges.

This is not Apple vs Orange
When I used Elden Ring I am refers to its uniqueness and didn't follow the "industry standard" that established by western RPG makers like Ubisoft's Assassins' Creed series and Far Cry series
Every single title made by Ubisoft nowadays is basically cut and paste berceuse they think the "system" is the best

Did Elden Ring hold player's hand like they are little babies? No
Did Elden Ring gives you marker on map? No
Did Elden Ring hand stuffs to player on a silver plate? No.
Did Elden Ring suppress every other Ubisoft titles? Yes.
Elden is successful because it choose a different path so did FF14
Why you keep thinking ward system is a failure?

You keep bring up system from either dead or dying mmorpg and believed FF14 should do the same.
Why should FF14 do the same?
The ward system is unique and highly customizable and this is the system they choose to have
You can complains the supply but claiming ward system is a filature is out right laughable.

If there is sudden advanced in technology where server is able to sustain more wards and there is no longer a supply issue
Are you still can claiming this is a failed idea?

[Jojoya]

This is not Apple vs Orange
When I used Elden Ring I am refers to its uniqueness and didn't follow the "industry standard" that established by western RPG makers like Ubisoft's Assassins' Creed series and Far Cry series
Every single title made by Ubisoft nowadays is basically cut and paste berceuse they think the "system" is the best

Did Elden Ring hold player's hand like they are little babies? No
Did Elden Ring gives you marker on map? No
Did Elden Ring hand stuffs to player on a silver plate? No.
Did Elden Ring suppress every other Ubisoft titles? Yes.
Elden is successful because it choose a different path so did FF14
Why you keep thinking ward system is a failure?

You keep bring up system from either dead or dying mmorpg and believed FF14 should do the same.
Why should FF14 do the same?
The ward system is unique and highly customizable and this is the system they choose to have
You can complains the supply but claiming ward system is a filature is out right laughable.

If there is sudden advanced in technology where server is able to sustain more wards and there is no longer a supply issue
Are you still can claiming this is a failed idea?

The ward system is not unique. LotRO also uses it and theirs predates ARR's release. They've even added more neighborhoods (their term for wards) automatically on an individual server basis as existing supply sold out. They didn't have some servers with multiple empty neighborhoods while other servers didn't have enough.

The ward system does fail when not every player is able to get a house. That's leaving players cut off from content access despite meeting qualifications. That doesn't happen with any other content in the game.

If your "sudden advanced technology" were ever to materialize and SE were to discuss it as a possible solution the supply problem, we could talk about it then.

Yes, it is a failed idea. Ideas frequently fail in practice. Many times only in hindsight that the drawbacks come to light. This is such an idea.

[Divinemights]

The ward system is not unique. LotRO also uses it and theirs predates ARR's release. They've even added more neighborhoods (their term for wards) automatically on an individual server basis as existing supply sold out. They didn't have some servers with multiple empty neighborhoods while other servers didn't have enough.

The ward system does fail when not every player is able to get a house. That's leaving players cut off from content access despite meeting qualifications. That doesn't happen with any other content in the game.

If your "sudden advanced technology" were ever to materialize and SE were to discuss it as a possible solution the supply problem, we could talk about it then.

Yes, it is a failed idea. Ideas frequently fail in practice. Many times only in hindsight that the drawbacks come to light. This is such an idea.

You keep bring up this dying mmorpg in which will never have a chance to get test but playerbase size of WoW and FF14.
Instanced nevertheless requires a dedicate server to host.
If currently we have the technology to handle such gigantic amount of player base, Blizzard would have done it already at Warlord of Dreanor instead of of laughable Garrison.
Remember, Blizzard is still the king at the time of that expansion release in which also has far more advance server technology than SE

[Fybrile]

You keep bring up this dying mmorpg in which will never have a chance to get test but playerbase size of WoW and FF14.
Instanced nevertheless requires a dedicate server to host.
If currently we have the technology to handle such gigantic amount of player base, Blizzard would have done it already at Warlord of Dreanor instead of of laughable Garrison.
Remember, Blizzard is still the king at the time of that expansion release in which also has far more advance server technology than SE

The size of a game's player base doesn't matter. The issue scales. If a game has few players, it's easier for them to implement instanced content because they will need fewer servers, sure. But, if they have a ton of players, they also make a ton more money with which to purchase additional servers. It scales. It's a non-issue.

SE has more than enough "technology" to handle such a gigantic amount of player base.

Here's the proof:

The current neighborhoods are instanced.
Radz-at-Han is instanced.
Dungeons are instanced.
Apartments are instanced.
Inn Rooms are instanced.
The Waking Sands is instanced.
PvP is instanced.
Lyhe Mheg is instanced, and it's barely more than an unused plot backdrop.
Even Garrisons, your woefully misguided example, were instanced.

Almost all of the game's content is instanced. Are you sure you what you're thinking of is instancing? Perhaps you're thinking of something else. Because, to say that instanced housing would be difficult because it's instanced and therefore would require vast amounts of new servers is flat out incorrect. The reason instancing exists in the first place is to reduce server load (thereby getting more out of each server). It's literally two or more versions of the same software running on one server (removing the need for two or more servers running the same software).

For example, Radz-at-Han is instanced so that there isn't a million players all visible at the same time, which would be server intensive and laggy.
On the otherhand, Dungeons are instanced so that people can enjoy a dungeon without everyone else in the server camping the bosses.
Instancing doesn't require vast amounts of crazy new technology. It's been a thing in MMOs since before WoW and, frankly, FFXIV is veritably built upon it.

So, I'm afraid when it comes to this, your post is incorrect.

Most of the people here advocating instanced housing are doing so PRECISELY because it's less server intensive and, therefore, an infinite amount of houses could be made available for less "technology" (read: hardware) and less cost to SE.

If you just like the current amount of houses, just say that. Then we would disagree and that would be the end of it. Don't masquerade as something you know very little about, cuz that's only going to undermine your point with a lot of incorrect information.

Also, Elden Ring and Far Cry aren't MMORPGs. It really is comparing apples to oranges to pineapples.

[Jojoya]

You keep bring up this dying mmorpg in which will never have a chance to get test but playerbase size of WoW and FF14.
Instanced nevertheless requires a dedicate server to host.
If currently we have the technology to handle such gigantic amount of player base, Blizzard would have done it already at Warlord of Dreanor instead of of laughable Garrison.
Remember, Blizzard is still the king at the time of that expansion release in which also has far more advance server technology than SE

Ion addressed why WoW doesn't have housing in an interview he did with Preach before Preach got fed up and quit WoW. It doesn't have housing because they would have to use a hook system, which MMO players have long since made clear they detest.

That actually helped make more sense out of why Garrisons were such a disappointment - they were a hook system. Small buildings could only be placed on the small hooks, medium on medium hooks, large on large hooks, achievement monuments on monument hooks. Artifact trophies could only be placed on their specifically assigned hooks instead of displayed in an order meaningful to the player.

But that was WoW. We know the systems are different here. We know that instanced housing is possible because we're already using it. We know that having an outdoor area within a personal instance is possible because that's what Island Sanctuary is - a big outdoor area. SE has the tools to make a better housing system at hand - they just need to put in the effort to combine them so that no player that wants a house is left behind.