It's clear SE doesn't care and Samurai will not be reverted in 6.2

[butchersblock]

I'm going to pick this comment to go with. But what you said ties in exactly to what I called samurai in other threads: A discount half-assed monk in its current rotation. And that is the problem samurai has. Because it's so much like monk, why would you play the shittier version when the real version is available too? We have 5 melee roles, each plays differently from the other, with the exception of samurai now. Sure it has little quirks still, but it largely flows the same as monk. Practically down to the flowchart if someone wanted to make that for samurai.

the hell did i just read lol

[Ruminous]

the hell did i just read lol

The ramblings of someone who's lacking sleep these days and trying to make a point, but also fails to English. I hope the point got across though!

[butchersblock]

The ramblings of someone who's lacking sleep these days and trying to make a point, but also fails to English. I hope the point got across though!

I'm all for criticizing homogenization but I fail to see the resemblance between Monk's and Samurai's gameplay fantasies, so no I don't think your point quite reached me yet

[xAFROx]

These takes are so hot, I can't even tell if it's genuine anymore. I've also been saying that SAM feels like worse-MNK since the change which is bad. A job might be comparable to another, but they should never be exactly the same. That problem already exists in the healer and tank roles, especially WAR and DRK. They need to stop that.

Losing Kaiten didn't increase the amount of shinten by that much. It just made it the only thing left to do and it's stupid.

Also, yes, there is a huge chunk of nothing before every iaijutsu cast because kaiten isn't there to buffer into it cleanly with the animation. Shinten animation is probably what, like 6 or 9 frames? idk, but all I know is that trying to pad out the gcd roll with a shinten I'm still sitting there watching my character do nothing for nearly 2 seconds because of how damn fast and abrupt shinten is.

Also, while I'd agree that all players are welcome to have an opinion, to look at a game that's supposed to have diverse ways of play through the various jobs and say 'this is now better because it plays the same as another' means that the devs have failed at their job of creating unique gameplay. Just look at any interview that discusses one job to another, you'll see the devs say 'no, this job is this job, so why would we make that job like this?' As if we're crazy for suggesting something to them.

For instance, I saw a clip not too long ago where someone had asked why RDM vercure scaled off their int stat while SMN physick scaled off mnd and all they could say was "rdm is rdm, there should be differences between jobs, otherwise it would all be the same and that's not fun"

So why the heck is everything being, let's say it together now.... "Homogenized" for the sake of accessibility. Sounds to me like they're going against their typical philosophy on job design.

[Ruminous]

I'm all for criticizing homogenization but I fail to see the resemblance between Monk's and Samurai's gameplay fantasies, so no I don't think your point quite reached me yet

I apologize, it isn't meant to be a cross between their fantasies. My point is samurai feels too much like a half-assed shittier version of monk. I want both to feel different, not the same, since if I wanted the monk experience I'd just go play monk. I'll go clean that up so there's less confusion in the post. My sleepless brain probably said it wrong.

[Ransu]

Why would there be an awkward pause where Kaiten used to be? You just perform a Shinten in that gap. I certainly had to practice a new rotation, but what I did was to replace my Kaiten button with my Shinten button, and every time I did a 'Kaiten' in front of Iaijutsu I did a Shinten, which was effectively what I wanted until the muscle memory grew back.

MNK and SAM wear the same left and right side gear, so yes I was quite able to test the job with quite nice gear lol. I apologize in advance, but saying that you main <job> means that you have no say in how SAM is supposed to be like is just arrogance.

There's an awkward pause because shinten is a quick animation and doesn't fill the GCD like kaiten did. Shinten is also just a horrible animation.

No, my belief that APM should be higher now, since you can perform 2 Shintens for every weaponskill and you don't have to save for Kaiten, so you should have the kenki for it. I would hardly call using Kaiten intelligent application- it's obvious you would save kenki for Kaiten over performing a Shinten. Now that Kaiten's buff is rolled into other areas to try to make up the potency loss, naturally you try to do Shinten as much as possible but more importantly as soon as possible, since there is no advantage to saving a full before spamming it.

You can believe whatever you want, but its still factually wrong. You also seem to be bad at math or somehow forgot that shinten cost more than kaiten did.

I didn't like Kaiten and it's one of the reasons why I don't seriously play SAM today. And it actually ties in to how Iaijutsu feels, which I felt as though it was just a tad too long where you cannot move or else you interrupt the channeling. So to put Kaiten in front of every Iaijutsu and I almost feel like I'm watching grass grow. I admit it, I'm too used to the spammy dancing monkey nonsense of MNK to have the patience to play SAM, so removing Kaiten and just weaving in more instant casts just felt right to me.

Just a note to all, I am NOT SAYING that your preference to seeing Kaiten exist is wrong. But it feels as though many SAM fanatics don't hear enough from outside the job. Probably at the end of the day you'll all disregard my remarks, but at least I tried to provide a counter-opinion, hopefully as respectfully as possible.

WTF are you on about? Kaiten was an oGCD just like shinten is. You still have to settle in a spot and cast your iajutsus. Nothing changes in that regard. The more you post the more people are going to disregard anything you say. You clearly don't understand how to play the job. If you don't play the job then we don't care what you have to say. We don't care about hearing players from outside the job because catering to people who don't like or don't play it is the wrong approach. Its why everyone is so pissed off at all the job changes. We have 20 jobs and not all of them are going to be for everyone. They should be doubling down on what the players enjoy about their mains, not butchering them to appeal to players that still wont main those jobs.

[Ceridwen]

I didn't like Kaiten and it's one of the reasons why I don't seriously play SAM today. And it actually ties in to how Iaijutsu feels, which I felt as though it was just a tad too long where you cannot move or else you interrupt the channeling. So to put Kaiten in front of every Iaijutsu and I almost feel like I'm watching grass grow. I admit it, I'm too used to the spammy dancing monkey nonsense of MNK to have the patience to play SAM, so removing Kaiten and just weaving in more instant casts just felt right to me.

Just a note to all, I am NOT SAYING that your preference to seeing Kaiten exist is wrong. But it feels as though many SAM fanatics don't hear enough from outside the job. Probably at the end of the day you'll all disregard my remarks, but at least I tried to provide a counter-opinion, hopefully as respectfully as possible.

One of my issues with the monk is all the clipping, though on her, I've built that up before Samurai. (My bunny was the Samurai - it looked better on him. On her, I barely noticed Kaiten, in that I couldn't see it. I can see myself stand on my head and spin & kick everything far beyond my range, however)

So I'd guess how the class looks means less to you than faster action. But Samurai was never a fast job, imo - it was methodical and elegant, quite the opposite of a monk. I wouldn't want it to be a monk, because both classes had their point, their image, and their feel. I can replicate how Kaiten looked like - I'd look like a fool, no doubt, but I can do it. Replicating shinten would mean - poking someone? I guess? (I could, in theory, replicate my amazing monk spin - but... - Meaning, at least I remember what it looks like.

That's the problem, I guess. Many of us really cared about the feel and aesthetics of the Samurai, and that's gone. It's simpler, but if they're just going to make every class but BLM fast & simple - they're going into dark warc territory, and I deeply do not want that.

[Ceridwen]

These takes are so hot, I can't even tell if it's genuine anymore. I've also been saying that SAM feels like worse-MNK since the change which is bad. A job might be comparable to another, but they should never be exactly the same. That problem already exists in the healer and tank roles, especially WAR and DRK. They need to stop that.

Besides grieving the hollowing of what I considered one of the best designed classes, THIS is what's bothering me the most. Monk still feels like a monk - the Samurai doesn't feel like anything, but it is tipping dangerously into a lesser, blander version of mnk. I do feel it with my healers - and I love healing, but I often find myself placing abilities in the same spot because they ARE the same.

[SiriusBreeze]

Dear devs, if you are still reading the forums when are we gonna get our Kaiten back!

[ShanaShirayuki]

Why would there be an awkward pause where Kaiten used to be? You just perform a Shinten in that gap. I certainly had to practice a new rotation, but what I did was to replace my Kaiten button with my Shinten button, and every time I did a 'Kaiten' in front of Iaijutsu I did a Shinten, which was effectively what I wanted until the muscle memory grew back.

MNK and SAM wear the same left and right side gear, so yes I was quite able to test the job with quite nice gear lol. I apologize in advance, but saying that you main <job> means that you have no say in how SAM is supposed to be like is just arrogance.

Except your entire argument has been "SAM feels more like MNK so it's good now." So I'll echo what others have said, stick to playing MNK and let the rest of us who actually know the class fight to have its identity returned. It's been painfully obvious in your replies to others and vice versa that you are not experienced with SAM; nor know or care about the issues it currently has. It's not arrogant to call out someone's ignorance; I'm sorry you see it as such.