What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Lucida3b]

Probably the two big parts i can think of right now that took me out of ff14 were the whole thing with yotsuyu near literal pimp and the whole thing with the conferederacy. but as you say its enough to just ignore it or just 'deal with it'

[Brinne]

I'm going to admit that I completely overlooked all of that.

Probably because my vision was obscured by the giant hearts appearing in front of my eyes whenever Sadu Heavensflame was onscreen.

Perfectly understandable! Have a nice day.

I'm curious to know your exact objections to the Yotsuyu plotline.

The Yotsuyu plotline, in regards to Hien, wanted to have its cake and eat it too - it wanted pathos for Yotsuyu on the basis of her abuse at the hands of Doma and its entrenched systems as a country, and pretend it was making some kind of deep, emotional point about them, but it didn't want Hien, its ruler and someone too privileged to have ever had to deal with that corruption, to be accountable for any of it. This includes overlooking and not naming that Hien's father was overseeing the country as these abusive systems, sex trafficking included, flourished - Hien continues to hero worship and do things in honor of his father unabashedly after Yotsuyu's story comes out - and making sure Hien only needs to say the absolute vaguest "oh we'll make the country better" platitudes, and nothing concrete, no real plan of action or indication of exactly how Yotsuyu's story may have impacted him. And for all of Yotsuyu's rage, none of it is actually directed at Hien, and she and Hien share no compelling scenes together, despite being the key players of Doma. Like him, the writing with her is careful to keep it at a vague "Doma as a country (and also Asashi because he's a safe target deliberately made to be hateable) sucks" and not point any fingers or step on the toes of any real, breathing characters we might know and like and who might actually be held meaningfully accountable.

And, of course, the fun bit where Hien's comment on Yotsuyu's rapist amounts to: "Well, as far as I've known him he's a good person, so I can't judge him" is the lovely cherry on top. Get out of here, dude.

[CrownySuccubus]

This includes overlooking and not naming that Hien's father was overseeing the country as these abusive systems, sex trafficking included, flourished - Hien continues to hero worship and do things in honor of his father unabashedly after Yotsuyu's story comes out - and making sure Hien only needs to say the absolute vaguest "oh we'll make the country better" platitudes, and nothing concrete, no real plan of action or indication of exactly how Yotsuyu's story may have impacted him.

And, of course, the fun bit where Hien's comment on Yotsuyu's rapist amounts to: "Well, as far as I've known him he's a good person, so I can't judge him" is the lovely cherry on top. Get out of here, dude.

.....And here's the part where I force myself not to go into another diatribe about certain real-life parallels and events.

In all seriousness, though, that is a very well-articulated and thoroughly-explained reasoning for something that I always felt gnawing at me on the Yotsuyu plotline, but just couldn't quite put my finger on. As someone who is aware of those certain real-life events which mirror this (and the story seems to be trying to justify to uncomfortable levels), I'm actually ashamed and humbled that I didn't notice this until you pointed it out.

But yeah...that is some major whattheeff-ery.

[Brinne]

.....And here's the part where I force myself not to go into another diatribe about certain real-life parallels and events.

In all seriousness, though, that is a very well-articulated and thoroughly-explained reasoning for something that I always felt gnawing at me on the Yotsuyu plotline, but just couldn't quite put my finger on. As someone who is aware of those certain real-life events which mirror this (and the story seems to be trying to justify to uncomfortable levels), I'm actually ashamed and humbled that I didn't notice this until you pointed it out.

But yeah...that is some major whattheeff-ery.

I mean, I've really enjoyed and feel like I've gotten a lot of insight from several of your posts and thoughts, too, so I hope that feeling at least doesn't plague you for too long!

(Hien sucks soooooo much, though)

[Misplaced_Marbles]

(No, I still have not forgotten the very beginning of the game when Gridania had me murder a bunch of Qiqirn for the crime of stealing an egg.)

At least they have a good reason for that, namely, the fact that the elementals would flip out and kill everyone...or so the lore and characters keep stating, regardless of the fact they never do much of anything (until the plot demands they do SOMETHING), even though there's been lot worse slights and desecrations happening in their little forest.

[CrownySuccubus]

At least they have a good reason for that, namely, the fact that the elementals would flip out and kill everyone...or so the lore and characters keep stating, regardless of the fact they never do much of anything (until the plot demands they do SOMETHING), even though there's been lot worse slights and desecrations happening in their little forest.

Yeah, but even then, every single plot involving the Elementals and the Padjals treats the Elementals as gracious, benevolent benefactors who have kindly allowed the people of the shroud to NOT be genocided. While the story does make it clear that the Elementals are temperamental and have an almost childlike cognitive level of discourse and coping, it still wants to portray them as truly magnanimous beings who have done the Gridanians a solid by allowing them to continue breathing oxygen.

[ReynTime]

Why is what Hien did in the steppe that much worse than convincing Ishgard to get involved in the war against Garlemald?

[tokinokanatae]

Why is what Hien did in the steppe that much worse than convincing Ishgard to get involved in the war against Garlemald?

We didn’t take over their main form of government in order to induce them to fight in a dangerous war without direct political gain.

[ReynTime]

We didn’t take over their main form of government in order to induce them to fight in a dangerous war without direct political gain.

You murdered the archbishop of Ishgard.
In the steppe you participated in a ritual that you were explicitly allowed in.

[YukikoKurosawa]

Probably the two big parts i can think of right now that took me out of ff14 were the whole thing with yotsuyu near literal pimp

"It's not my place to judge a man who trafficked underaged girls for years and years. The Jifuya I know is an honorable man. And he is a good friend.".

- Hien, King of Doma.