What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

[Rosenstrauch]

The more I think about it, the more dynamis fees like the Midichlorians of XIV. That's weird, lol.

It's funny, 'cause things like Dynamis are fairly common in anime and Japanese stories, and to a lesser extent western ones inspired by such. Think Undertale's "Determination", or "Spiral Power" from Gurren Lagann. The difference is that their respective "Believe in yourself!" magic systems were built into the setting from the beginning, while Dynamis is rather haphazardly thrown in.

I'm not sure if I want the writers to expand on Dynamis, ignore it going forward, or to dismiss it outright. Like, going "Actually Dynamis is completely unusable, and everyone who appears to use Dynamis was actually just using Aether". No matter what they do, I don't expect them to make it a worthwhile addition to the setting. But it's already poisoned the well, so to speak. You can try to take the poison out, but someone in the village still drank it and died.

[Raoabolic]

I'm not sure if I want the writers to expand on Dynamis, ignore it going forward, or to dismiss it outright. Like, going "Actually Dynamis is completely unusable, and everyone who appears to use Dynamis was actually just using Aether".

I would laugh hard at a retcon like that. I do agree that it's in a lot of shonen stuff (Gee, I wonder why EW felt like I was reading Shonen jump. lol) but the whole Dynamis thing feels a lot like they are "jumping the shark" ala Star Wars: Ep 1 in the sense they tried to explain stuff that really didn't need explaining. In hindsight I really hope we are not getting Ep2 and 3 for 7.0 and 8.0. Now I gone and depressed myself, lol. :/

[Theodric]

I'd agree that Dynamis appears to have been written purely as a method to justify the Sundering which is pretty...questionable in itself. An excellent way to showcase whether something is or isn't acceptable would be to subject the protagonists to that very same scenario. If they seek to resist or do not enjoy it then that says it all.

How unfortunate, then, that they're never at risk of any harm befalling them in the majority of cases. A fact many of their fans know all too well, I suspect. So it's pretty easy for them to shrug in indifference because even when one of the allies to the protagonists such as Hydaelyn does something messed up it's never going to be aimed at the protagonists so in their eyes it doesn't matter.

[aveyond-dreams]

Bringing this up because I was reminded of it recently, I am going to quote Hythlodaeus’s statement from Ultima Thule, which in retrospect seems like such an unbelievable thing to say now:

“Oh, come now. It’s been a gripping tale. Unbreakable bonds and noble sacrifice, sprinkled with moments of levity to counterbalance the pathos. It’s got it all.”

First of all, are you kidding me? Second of all, this statement only makes sense if we ignore the fact that this just didn’t happen in Endwalker. Oh there was “levity” all right, far too much of it for a story set against the backdrop of an apocalypse. Noble sacrifices? That were completely undone not 30 seconds after he says these lines? What in the world is he talking about here besides the sacrifices made by mostly the antagonist factions and Ahewann? The only thing “unbreakable” here is the plot armor surrounding the scions, doesn’t make for a very gripping tale when it’s clear the stakes for the main cast aren’t higher than those in an episode of Blue’s Clues.

His statement can only apply to the expansions previous to this one, back when I wasn't nearly as concerned for this game's direction as I am now.

[jameseoakes]

Bringing this up because I was reminded of it recently, I am going to quote Hythlodaeus’s statement from Ultima Thule, which in retrospect seems like such an unbelievable thing to say now:



First of all, are you kidding me? Second of all, this statement only makes sense if we ignore the fact that this just didn’t happen in Endwalker. Oh there was “levity” all right, far too much of it for a story set against the backdrop of an apocalypse. Noble sacrifices? That were completely undone not 30 seconds after he says these lines? What in the world is he talking about here besides the sacrifices made by mostly the antagonist factions and Ahewann? The only thing “unbreakable” here is the plot armor surrounding the scions, doesn’t make for a very gripping tale when it’s clear the stakes for the main cast aren’t higher than those in an episode of Blue’s Clues.

His statement can only apply to the expansions previous to this one, back when I wasn't nearly as concerned for this game's direction as I am now.

It was so clear early on in UT that the characters were not going to stay dead that it really killed those parts for me and made most of the setup for each 'death' just feel so overdone and empty

Edit: not helped by the fact the game as really fallen in to a habit of doing these fake outs a lot

[LordGiggles]

It was so clear early on in UT that the characters were not going to stay dead that it really killed those parts for me and made most of the setup for each 'death' just feel so overdone and empty

Edit: not helped by the fact the game as really fallen in to a habit of doing these fake outs a lot

Honestly I could be on board with it if the sacrifices weren't intended to have emotional impact on the player, with it being more focused on the actual arguments and reasons to press on the individual scions have, but I don't think it did that well. Urianger just hopping into the temporary suicide club with Yshtola because they couldn't figure out where else to put him is the best example of that I think, but there's a lot of pretty tropey nothing takes or just outright dumb stuff said by them in general.

Also yeah hard agree on the fake deaths, I was over that in heavensward. Yshtola getting one (or a "will she die????" moment) every expac since is just incredibly weak, uninspired writing.

[Theodric]

A large part of the problem is that the likes of Moenbryda are pushed as much more important than they actually were. Moenbryda's demise didn't really have any huge consequences. The Scions were upset because she was a good friend of theirs and a colleague. Her parents were upset because they're family. Yet beyond that, there's no deeper consequences.

A good death is a death that has lasting impact beyond making a few characters 'sad'. We really need someone on the level of Aymeric or Nanamo to die. A leader figure perishing for one reason or another would plunge a nation into chaos and if written well that very same chaos could bring back some of the grit and intrigue that many of us wish to see. With so many nations already introduced into the game itself, it makes no sense to me for every single one to go in the same 'safe' direction with no meaningful instability to speak of. I would have liked Merlwyb to perish during the negotiations with the Beast Tribes which would not only cause relations with the Kobold and Sahagin to sour but allow a new leader figure to step up and push Limsa deeper into piracy. Maybe Sicard could have fulfilled that role - and given us a male leader figure to rule at least one of the three starter city states.

[jameseoakes]

A large part of the problem is that the likes of Moenbryda are pushed as much more important than they actually were. Moenbryda's demise didn't really have any huge consequences. The Scions were upset because she was a good friend of theirs and a colleague. Her parents were upset because they're family. Yet beyond that, there's no deeper consequences.

A good death is a death that has lasting impact beyond making a few characters 'sad'. We really need someone on the level of Aymeric or Nanamo to die. A leader figure perishing for one reason or another would plunge a nation into chaos and if written well that very same chaos could bring back some of the grit and intrigue that many of us wish to see. With so many nations already introduced into the game itself, it makes no sense to me for every single one to go in the same 'safe' direction with no meaningful instability to speak of. I would have liked Merlwyb to perish during the negotiations with the Beast Tribes which would not only cause relations with the Kobold and Sahagin to sour but allow a new leader figure to step up and push Limsa deeper into piracy. Maybe Sicard could have fulfilled that role - and given us a male leader figure to rule at least one of the three starter city states.

I kinda liked some of the content around her as I did find it quite emotional but I find it odd that other character like Poplymedio and Yda were almost completely forgotten.

[Rulakir]

How unfortunate, then, that they're never at risk of any harm befalling them in the majority of cases. A fact many of their fans know all too well, I suspect. So it's pretty easy for them to shrug in indifference because even when one of the allies to the protagonists such as Hydaelyn does something messed up it's never going to be aimed at the protagonists so in their eyes it doesn't matter.

I didn't become resentful of the Scions until EW. They have everything handed to them by virtue of being joined at the hip to the WoL. I found it ridiculous they were somehow the poster children for strength through suffering when they're some of the most privileged lot I've ever seen. It probably won't happen given past history and the narrative of 6.0, but I felt that they needed to do some introspection when it comes to Venat embodying the ideologies they have consistently opposed except when it benefits them. I would like to see our 'moral paragons' have to reflect upon their own values (and hypocrisy) for once.

The WoL, equally, needs to start doing some level 30-50 DRK questioning of themselves if they always do the right thing or like whey they have to do (that the Scions typically push them into doing). This would make the characters and story exponentially more interesting to me. As it is, the Ancients are far more compelling because they do experience tragedy and loss. An extinction level event came and went with both the Scions and the world seeming completely unfazed.

Bringing this up because I was reminded of it recently, I am going to quote Hythlodaeus’s statement from Ultima Thule, which in retrospect seems like such an unbelievable thing to say now:

This appears to be an EN localization issue. Surprise, surprise. He doesn't say that in either FR or DE, as far as I know. It's:

"Don't be like that, it was fun. Look at them running about all agitated."
"It would be a shame if we were to disappear before this spectacle is over."

Side note, if you join the thread discord you get to see FR and DE translations. :P

We really need someone on the level of Aymeric or Nanamo to die.

Nanamo, yes. Aymeric, no. Every other city leader's head can be on the chopping block but his. :P

[aveyond-dreams]

A pirate nation actually being able to embrace piracy and all the potential grit and allure of it? Sign me up no questions asked. Aymeric taking the field and sacrificing himself for Ishgard in the same way that many of his fellow countrymen did over the course of Heavensward? Definitely a better ending for him than having him be practically a hostage of the House of Lords. This is the kind of deeper and more interesting storytelling I'd like to see, not this global alliance angle. Throw a wrench in it, stir up some chaos and make for a better experience.