So uh, wheres the long lasting content?

[KizuyaKatogami]

Did you do Sightseeing, all the Custom Deliveries, all the Tribal Quests (used to be called Beast Tribes), Finished all the Arr Zeta Weapons, all the Heavensward Anima Weapons?
All the Jump Puzzles, every Side Quest in every area, do all of Heaven on High and Palace of the Dead; The Hero & Necromancer Titles, gotten every single mount (some mounts I know are impossible to get and some you have to buy) did you do DR Extreme, Shared Fate in ShB & EW, and You said All Crafters and Gathers are Maxed....what about all Combat Jobs? And the Tank Mounts? And Tank Titles. Did you Collect Every Title? Raised Chocobo to max, and gotten all Bardings?
Optional: Did you become a Mentor?

Also you said you didnt do Ultimate.
So..you haven't done everything, and there is something for you to do. Objectively.

I love how you’re another example of what people have been saying in here. “HAVE YOU DONE X Y Z?!?!” which is really just the illusion of a meaningful grind but in reality you get very little for actually doing it. No offense but i want to be rewarded for my time. As for jobs, i don’t want to play gutted and simplified jobs. Maybe when SE decides to actually fix them and give attention to them i’d give them a try. I don’t understand how asking for more long lasting content and a better mid-core/endgame warrants “but did you do these super meaningless tasks from 3-4 expansions ago?!” I’m talking about this expansion, endwalker, the one i paid for recently.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I love how you’re another example of what people have been saying in here. “HAVE YOU DONE X Y Z?!?!” which is really just the illusion of a meaningful grind but in reality you get very little for actually doing it. No offense but i want to be rewarded for my time. As for jobs, i don’t want to play gutted and simplified jobs. Maybe when SE decides to actually fix them and give attention to them i’d give them a try. I don’t understand how asking for more long lasting content and a better mid-core/endgame warrants “but did you do these super meaningless tasks from 3-4 expansions ago?!” I’m talking about this expansion, endwalker, the one i paid for recently.

I simply asked if you've done all of this stuff. I guess by your reaction to such a simple question, the answer is a long-winded No.
And its unfortunate you feel that way about all of this other content, some of them give some good rewards...but I guess nothing you want.

[Ronduwil]

I love how you’re another example of what people have been saying in here. “HAVE YOU DONE X Y Z?!?!” which is really just the illusion of a meaningful grind but in reality you get very little for actually doing it.

I'm not sure what you're expecting a video game to give you. Literally, you get nothing except fun from playing video games. There are a ton of activities to do that most of us find fun. Just because you don't find Beast Tribe quests, deliveries, relic grinds, ultimate raids, and leveling to be satisfying doesn't mean that the game isn't rewarding for most of us. Expecting the game to cater just to your preferences at everyone else's expense simply isn't reasonable. We can offer suggestions until everyone is blue in the face, but you're always going to shut it down with:

i don’t want to play gutted and simplified jobs. Maybe when SE decides to actually fix them and give attention to them i’d give them a try. I don’t understand how asking for more long lasting content and a better mid-core/endgame warrants “but did you do these super meaningless tasks from 3-4 expansions ago?!”

So what I'm getting is that your complaint that there's nothing to do is really just a thinly veiled expression of your disapproval with the current job changes that most of us are perfectly fine with. With the exception of two jobs (Samurai, which could stand to have many buttons consolidated without having to eliminate a single skill and Summoner, which seems to evolve into a completely different job every expansion), most of the changes they've made have gone in the right direction. If you want constructive feedback for your complaints, then come right out and state them instead of complaining that you have nothing to do.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I'm not sure what you're expecting a video game to give you. Literally, you get nothing except fun from playing video games. There are a ton of activities to do that most of us find fun. Just because you don't find Beast Tribe quests, deliveries, relic grinds, ultimate raids, and leveling to be satisfying doesn't mean that the game isn't rewarding for most of us. Expecting the game to cater just to your preferences at everyone else's expense simply isn't reasonable. We can offer suggestions until everyone is blue in the face, but you're always going to shut it down with:

So what I'm getting is that your complaint that there's nothing to do is really just a thinly veiled expression of your disapproval with the current job changes that most of us are perfectly fine with. With the exception of two jobs (Samurai, which could stand to have many buttons consolidated without having to eliminate a single skill and Summoner, which seems to evolve into a completely different job every expansion), most of the changes they've made have gone in the right direction. If you want constructive feedback for your complaints, then come right out and state them instead of complaining that you have nothing to do.

Theres a lot of assumptions going on when clearly you havent read any of my posts. I havent complained about relic grinds outside of the shb ones. I literally said i adored eureka... Beast tribes are literally heres something to do for 10 mins and thats it. Content over until the next day.Same with deliveries except its wait until next week.Ive already done savage this tier.

This is honestly the gatekeeping that people bring up time and time again though. You clearly cannot handle anyone critiquing content so you go and assume they must have some other problem or thei rother problems are some... "veil." Sorry to say, youre partially incorrect. My critique on the current content system of it being shit, is on top of, me thinking the current job design is shit. Neither is some veil over the other, so lets cool it with the conspiracy theories. Considering how many healer threads there are and how many qna questions are about healers, im inclinded to say not most of "us" are perfectly fine with them. Same goes for things like samurai,summoner,machinist, and so on and so forth. Just because YOU disagree doesnt mean everyone does. Im not sure btw, how asking for more long lasting endgame content or more midcore content is expecting the game to cater to my preferences. Its objectively something the game is lacking.

I really am because the vibe I'm getting off this continued stream of tears feels like it's approaching / at that level. The level of dissatisfaction and the amount of energy being poured into this makes me think you take this whole thing a little too seriously and could really use a break. At least stop and figure out what it is you really want here.

Again, this place is for criticism. If you cant handle peoples opinions or cant handle debate, then dont engage. Trying to tie irl events into this is just counterproductive and honestly childish.

[Ronduwil]

Considering how many healer threads there are and how many qna questions are about healers, im inclinded to say not most of "us" are perfectly fine with them.

In my experience, you can't engage in a meaningful conversation with those people. They complain that healing is boring outside of ultimates, but they don't want to do ultimates. If you point out that they can raise the bar and set a goal of keeping everyone topped off in normal mode, they counter that then they're overhealing. How would they even know that they're overhealing without using an addon that is against ToS anyway? Also, when did overhealing ever prevent anything in normal mode from being completed? Then they come back saying that they need more complex DPS rotations as healers. Well, then play a DPS job! It's also a stretch to say that "most" players feel that way. There are millions of players who are subscribed to the game. Even the most popular forum post has maybe hundreds of likes. Forum complaints naturally skew heavily in the direction of players who are unhappy with the game. Adjusting the gameplay to suit the preferences of this fringe is a great way to tank the game's popularity.

[KizuyaKatogami]

In my experience, you can't engage in a meaningful conversation with those people. They complain that healing is boring outside of ultimates, but they don't want to do ultimates. If you point out that they can raise the bar and set a goal of keeping everyone topped off in normal mode, they counter that then they're overhealing. How would they even know that they're overhealing without using an addon that is against ToS anyway? Also, when did overhealing ever prevent anything in normal mode from being completed? Then they come back saying that they need more complex DPS rotations as healers. Well, then play a DPS job! It's also a stretch to say that "most" players feel that way. There are millions of players who are subscribed to the game. Even the most popular forum post has maybe hundreds of likes. Forum complaints naturally skew heavily in the direction of players who are unhappy with the game. Adjusting the gameplay to suit the preferences of this fringe is a great way to tank the game's popularity.

Uh, many complain healing is boring even in Ultimates, just less so. Every form of combat content in 14 has the same issue with healers. You are left spamming a single button for 90% of a fight. That is not fun nor is it good design. You dont need any special tools to notice overhealing. Its painfully obvious in things like dungeons or even 8 man content when a healer is overhealing and not using that time to dps.when the main dev of the game gets told healers are unfun and not engaging and his only response is essentially f off and go do ultimate(where it isnt even that much better) there is an inherent issue.

[Nizzi]

In my experience, you can't engage in a meaningful conversation with those people.

Oh, you mean "they disagree with me and refute everything I say so I ignore them and then later claim you can't engage in a meaningful conversation" huh? Got it.

They complain that healing is boring outside of ultimates, but they don't want to do ultimates.

I'mma be real with you, it's ridiculous that the same people who say "erm just unsub its not a game you're meant to be played all the time??" when people say they're bored then parrot Yoshida and say "erm go play Ultimate??" in regards to healers being boring. I shouldn't be forced to prog a fight for weeks to have fun on an entire role. I don't have time for that and quite frankly even if that was a solution, the last one they released before DSR was TEA back in 2019. What happens when people clear Ultimate? Just... do it again and again and then kick rocks if your static wants to not constantly replay a single fight? There's only one Ultimate at level 90, and likely will only be one more this entire expac. This is not a valid answer and it sidesteps the problem when even healer DPS is required in Ultimate content as well.

If you point out that they can raise the bar and set a goal of keeping everyone topped off in normal mode, they counter that then they're overhealing.

Wow, what incredibly bad design! You can just come up for little mini-games for yourself that don't contribute anything to the party so you can try to have fun! Contrary to what you might think, there are a lot of players who enjoy doing as best as they can, and with how all content is designed doing DPS and not spamming heals is what is correct. As people who want to help our party, why should we have fun doing something that doesn't help clear?

How would they even know that they're overhealing without using an addon that is against ToS anyway? Also, when did overhealing ever prevent anything in normal mode from being completed?

Lol it takes a genius rocket science and a ToS banned program to know that hitting heals when no healing needs to be done is overhealing. What a statement.

Then they come back saying that they need more complex DPS rotations as healers. Well, then play a DPS job!

No, I want to play a healer, but the game tells me I have to DPS in Extreme, Savage, etc content. It's also not fun to press buttons that don't need to be pressed just so I can have fake depth and pretend like I'm doing more. I don't want to play a DPS job, but I want to contribute to the team, so what am I supposed to do when there's nothing to heal? Exactly; you do DPS. The developers understand this and design the harder content to REQUIRE it.
Further, the options are all the same for every healer; no healer has a different DPS playstyle despite content requiring healers do as much DPS as possible to meet tight enrage timers. It's so bad that even something minor as giving SCH back Miasma on a different timer would make it feel way better to play and would let me happily main the job for all of this expac. We want more to do, DPS options are the quickest and easiest path considering how the game is designed.
I don't want to play a DPS, I want to play a healer. Scholar specifically is the only job I care about at all in this game above a baseline level. Seems a bit ridiculous to say "pick another job" when what Scholar had in the past is what I want. Maybe just go back to how it was? It had these things in the past; we're not asking for anything new or for the job to play differently.

Adjusting the gameplay to suit the preferences of this fringe is a great way to tank the game's popularity.

Yeah definitely it was removing the DoTs/Selene from SCH, AST's unique cards, etc that made this game get popular. Clearly, going back to the way things used to be would tank the games popularity. Oh wait, SCH and AST are still the two least played healers in the game, I am 100% positive that returning a few old actions will not cause the death of this game. People aren't signing up to play this game because "wow I heard all four of the healers spam 1 button for 70-80% of their casts, that sounds like the game for me!" they're signing up for the actual good aspects of the game.
And honestly, if there are people who would be sad that all four healers were no longer 1 button monsters, that's tough? They sure didn't really seem to care when every healer became what they are now. Let there be diversity back in this role so everyone can have the playstyle they want, rather than being forced into this nonsense.

[Nethereal]

Lol it takes a genius rocket science and a ToS banned program to know that hitting heals when no healing needs to be done is overhealing. What a statement.

Why do you think they nerfed thunder daddy 3 stack from a alliance wide wipe to a 60% health hit. People like that.

[Ronduwil]

Oh, you mean "they disagree with me and refute everything I say so I ignore them and then later claim you can't engage in a meaningful conversation" huh? Got it.

No. I mean that they look for reasons to be mad and use irrelevant hyperbolic statements to refute every solution that you throw at them. They're complaining that the midcore mode is too casual but that they don't want to be hardcore. Instead they're moving the goal posts and insisting that hardcore is midcore and demanding that the current midcore content be overtuned so that they can engage in hardcore content without having to resort to the party finder. So many players complain that healers are in a bad place, but I have yet to see anyone offer a vision of what a "good place" for healers would be.

If I were SE, here's how I would go about making healing more of a challenge in regular content:
1. Delete Lucid Dreaming. Make resource management an actual challenge
2. Add more "DPS Buster" mechanics to the fights so that healers have something to mitigate other than raid-wides and tank-busters
3. Add more lethal debuffs to the fights to keep healers busy with dispels in addition to heals
4. Disable healer DPS buttons in instances and replace them with something like the Astrologian card system so that they stay busy while still paying attention to the party

If any or all of these sound awful to you, then either quit complaining about healing or present solutions of your own. I honestly feel that player complaints about the state of healing fall under the category of "you think you do but you don't."

[Deveryn]

No. I mean that they look for reasons to be mad and use irrelevant hyperbolic statements to refute every solution that you throw at them. They're complaining that the midcore mode is too casual but that they don't want to be hardcore. Instead they're moving the goal posts and insisting that hardcore is midcore and demanding that the current midcore content be overtuned so that they can engage in hardcore content without having to resort to the party finder. So many players complain that healers are in a bad place, but I have yet to see anyone offer a vision of what a "good place" for healers would be.

If I were SE, here's how I would go about making healing more of a challenge in regular content:
1. Delete Lucid Dreaming. Make resource management an actual challenge
2. Add more "DPS Buster" mechanics to the fights so that healers have something to mitigate other than raid-wides and tank-busters
3. Add more lethal debuffs to the fights to keep healers busy with dispels in addition to heals
4. Disable healer DPS buttons in instances and replace them with something like the Astrologian card system so that they stay busy while still paying attention to the party

If any or all of these sound awful to you, then either quit complaining about healing or present solutions of your own. I honestly feel that player complaints about the state of healing fall under the category of "you think you do but you don't."

I agree with the sentiment here. There's too much complaining and very little effort put towards actual feasible solutions.